Sunday, August 31, 2008

Anger management? No, thanks. I’ve had all the placid acceptance I can stomach.

I’ll begin this essay with a promise. This is my final posting on the topic.

And, an observation.

Thanks to New Albany’s Greatly Unnecessary Smoking Debate of ’08, I know conclusively that in spite of numerous personal differences, which I’m only now, this year, in the process of resolving, I am in fact my father’s son.

It may not seem like the sort of revelation designed to hang one’s rhetorical hat, but considering the year I‘ve had, it’s huge.

And if it means parting ways with my progressive brethren by sneering at orthodoxy, so be it. It’s healthier to sneer at orthodoxy than it is to dip snuff or smoke cigars, wouldn’t you think?

---

Several hundred people visit NAC on a daily basis. Among regular readers of this blog, there is a smaller, select group composed of true friends. Among this group, there are fewer still with whom I’m very close, and they know what a challenging year it’s been in my world. I’ll leave it at that, as background information.

Looking at it objectively, during the past month I’ve expended a disproportionate amount of time and energy in vigorously and vociferously contesting the city council’s smoking ban decision, and yes, that fact may seem counterintuitive to casual acquaintances, given that I’ve never smoked cigarettes, am not enamored of the odor they generate, and have little desire to be a pariah on my own side of the fence.

It’s just that the effete stench in this case isn’t emanating from an ashtray.

Furthermore, it certainly isn’t that I have ample time to devote to this particular struggle. Like many other people, I’m working two jobs: I’m helping my partners run our existing business, and I’m trying to start a second business. I’m serving on two volunteer boards. I’m married, and we own a home, and there are four cats and a 25-year-old truck in need of an oil change. The list goes on. Quite a few people out there have it far worse than me, and because I know that’s true, I’m not going to make it into a federal case, but if you haven’t owned a small business, you have no idea how difficult time management can be.

Or how much it pisses you off to be told that you obviously don’t know how to manage your own affairs.

---

Recently, the Bookseller asked me about my frequent disparaging of “out-of-towners” during this discussion. His unspoken question has been, “Why are you taking all this so personally?”

Fair enough, and I’ll try to explain why the professional cessation lobbyist’s comments during the last city council meeting grated on my nerves so thoroughly with each passing moment (lest we forget, many moments past the previously mandated “one”) that I felt compelled to speak aloud from my front row seat with reference to the unfolding travesty, and to remind the pusillanimous council president to follow his own stated “rule” … and to be ejected as a result of my insolence … and, just for the hell of it, what all this has to do with my father’s life.

At its most basic, I reacted the way I did out of pure instinct, because just like my father before me, I simply can’t resist throwing in my lot with the underdog, and as the smoking spectacle has stupidly proceeded, it’s become increasingly obvious that the truest underdog is the dude sitting on a barstool smoking a cigarette I’d never smoke, and drinking a beer I’d never drink, and probably watching a NASCAR race that I’d never watch.

Why do I so resent the presence of the paid professional anti-smoking lobbyists, the carpetbaggers from afar, and the associated health fascists who’ve descended on the city, then decamped just as quickly for further adventures in expense account living in other unfortunate burgs down the lonely Interstate from here?

It’s because they don’t have to do more than one thing at a time, while I don’t have the time to do anything, and what they’re being paid to do is intolerable from a standpoint of basic human fairness.

To me, they’re the health fascist obermenschen, these nannying, passionless people who are paid to perform one task and one task only sans the endless multitasking that fills my days, and that task is to demonize cigarette smokers, to the exclusion of anything and anyone else, and it infuriates me, because my fellow bar owners, who by the admirably frank admission of prime anti-smoking campaigner John Gonder must now cope with ground unexpectedly “shifting” beneath their feet, don’t have the luxury of spending 40-hour weeks defending their interests from predatory attack.

They’re peasants armed with mere sticks, squinting through the clouds at bombers cruising 20,000 feet or above … and the cluster bombs are hurtling through the air.

These bar and restaurant owners have next to no time to take away from their labor-intensive business creations, and no kneejerk lobby to level a playing field tilted against them from the start. They must scramble during rare off-hours to protect conditions that they genuinely perceive as important to their livelihoods, to rally their workers and customers (who’ve no time, either) to fight against something that was sprung on them without substantive warning, with not a solitary soul on a suddenly non-reactive council preparing them for the unexpected.

Just deft politics?

Pfui.

The speed of the council’s smoking represents cowardice by any reasonable definition.

Frozen in the headlights, with indignity piling atop indignity, and in the almost complete absence of clear public communication from the pro-ban bloc (how long will Jeff Gahan use his president’s chair as a shield from scrutiny?), these hard working business owners attended as many of the incredibly scant public hearings as possible, and were compelled to limit their comments to one minute, graciously complied in the main, and then were forced to listen with mounting frustration as they were lectured like dawdling kindergartners by Tim Filler, the carpetbagging cessation lobbyist from another city, who of course couldn’t possibly have any clear notion of how to run the businesses these people have operated on a daily basis, in some cases, for decades.

Want to respond? Sorry, suckers – you already had your minute … and by the way, Mr. Filler, just keep talking. Keep demeaning. Keep insulting. To hell with science. Just make these redneck bar owners look bad.

Mr. Filler, you can have as many minutes as you like to call honest people liars, to dispute their professional acumen, and to denigrate their comprehension of their own business, of their own interests, of their own customers – including that non-confrontational fellow on the barstool who wants above all else to have a few minutes away from it all, and can’t understand why we’re yelling about smoking when the street outside remains unpaved.

Detecting a wee bit of anger?

I won’t deny it.

---

It should make you angry, too, to have two sets of rules, and to have someone you’re never met speak with a theatrically straight face about your own inadequacies as an operator. Gee, how did I ever keep a business open for 16 years knowing as little as I do?

Anyone possessing a shard of empathy and a trace of solidarity with people engaged in the same pursuit as yours would feel the same way as I do, but this is different. This is the smoking “debate,” which manages to muddy the scrum comprehensively without my tossing buckets of water on the pitch.

So tell me, fellow fair-minded progressives, what part of any of this is fair to these extremely hard working people?

I may be a progressive, but what part of importing a for-hire suit to tell people they don’t know how to run their own businesses makes sense to you?

Why must smokers and operators be demonized in such a manner?

Wasn’t it supposed to have been about workplace safety?

Why did Jeff Gahan permit the “debate” to devolve into anarchy?

Why is John Gonder the only council pro-ban advocate to have basic human respect for the other side, while the other four remain as ziplocked as the barbecued bologna sandwich in Dan Coffey’s Bazooka Joe lunch box?

Take your time before you answer – but no more than a minute, because another important point that we’ve been taught by the smoking ban debate is that when it comes to social engineering campaigns undertaken by ward heelers, debate really isn’t necessary at all. Lip service to disposable principle is it, and nothing more.

Perhaps this oppressive absence of meaningful discourse will go down in history as the King Gahan Doctrine, and maybe we’ll be extremely lucky and the council will retain some semblance of a “progressive” bloc to enforce limited debate on slumlord abatement to the barest minimum necessary to appear civilized, but somehow I doubt it. Coffey will scurry when the time is right ... and then what?

---

Why did it come down this way?

You see, neither that quiet guy on the barstool, nor the bar owner serving him, have anywhere near the lobbying clout that rental property owners have, and in the end, that’s why the pro-ban council bloc decided to schedule them first for the ritualistic ostracizing. It’s because sitting there, minding their own business, they couldn’t see it coming.

They were easy marks, and at a low, low price.

It’s because the out-of-towners would do the heavy lifting, the council members voting in favor would have three and half years for people to forget about it, and the socially unacceptable smokers with no organized resistance would be chased into the street to pitch their filthy nicotine-stained pup tents in the unrepaired pot holes that this council hasn’t had the guts to address, primarily because there’s no money, just like there’s no money (and likely, no will) to enforce the non-smoking mandate.

Y’all feel better about yourselves now that you've solved a purely cosmetic problem by disenfranchising people who did nothing to provoke it?

Not so fast, Jeff, John, Pat, Dan and Bob.

That question is aimed at my fellow progressives, not the council.

----

And what of my dad?

My father spent his life chasing populist windmills, and most of the time he got burned, but his instincts were noble. He looked at any problem from the perspective of the guys like him, and guys like him were the underdogs, and yeah, while it’s true that I’ve spent most of my adult life distancing myself from getting hurt by believing in something so much that losing it would matter to me, sometimes I guess blood is thicker than water.

I asked the council why this, and why now? Gonder tried, and I appreciate it, but in truth, there has been no answer. Yet.

The Bookseller asked, why this issue and not another?

It’s because there’s something so repugnant about this, and that cuts at such a deep level, that I’m forced to do something I seldom sanction, and that’s douse the lights and start swinging. Sorry if it offends you. Like my dad before me, I'll get over it ... but not before I'm finished having my say.

We didn’t always get along, but my dad taught me that two wrongs don’t make a right. In my view, a smoking ordinance that purports to protect defenseless workers has achieved its aim only by targeting and vilifying business people and their customers, because in the end, at closing time, no one really wants to talk about science at all.

Science simply can’t be trusted to assuage individual prejudices, to scratch irrational itches, and to make us fear dying any less. At the same time, substituting one prejudice for another strikes me as hypocrisy of a very high order. The hypocrisy is what I'll remember when I'm standing outside the building I own, smoking my cigar, and wondering if Sam will run again for the sixth in 2011 ... and whether redistricting will have been achieved by then for the first time since 1992.

This hasn’t been a fair fight, and my dad taught me that fights should be fair, even if the outcome is preordained.

And that’s why I’m angry about it.

Thanks for asking.

Yes, I’m being feisty, prickly, disputative and contrarian about something that the majority of my own friends and acquaintances would prefer me to let lie and peacefully move on to other issues, but damn it, the more you see rigid orthodoxy enveloping you, the more someone – anyone -- has to try to state an opposing viewpoint.

That is what I’ve tried to do. At least I’m open and fully transparent about it. Jeff Gahan and the council pro-ban bloc has chosen opaqueness and subterfuge. Let history be the judge of which has shown more integrity in the process … and I accept the verdict.

Just don't limit me to a minute. That's just plain insulting to an intelligence seldom valued in this town.

25 comments:

Randy said...

Well said. I merely differ with you on which course is orthodoxy and which course is not. See you at the Riverfront, I assume.

The New Albanian said...

We're planning on it!

Jeff Gillenwater said...

You sir, are directly on target. This is about personal preferences and politics, plain and simple.

Not a single person on either side of this debate, hired gun or otherwise, has shown a mastery of the science involved beyond suggesting that their particular source of information is unimpeachable.

That fact that we legislate in this way is detrimental to the entire community. The very same ardently pro-ban people would decry the council's methodology if the issue were different. I've watched them do it for years.

Iamhoosier said...

I'm in a different business than you but face many of the same obstacles and time constraints that you mention. I have to deal with changing government edicts, social patterns, and shifting economic developements, much as you do. And that is where my "rub" with your position comes from.

The "hospitality" business is not unique. I spent a few hours last week with a representative from the FDA. Subject? Bio-terrorism. We sell chicken feed(among other products) I(we)have to change some of the ways that we run our business based on rules and regulations from people who probably don't know the difference between a steer and heifer. My company will either adapt or face the consequences. No representative from our company had a say in these rules.

We run 10 tractor-trailer rigs. The government mandated a major change in the pollution standards for diesel engines. These rules, while possibly helping clean the air, also caused the mileage to decrease. Again, an impact(major, in this instance)on our business and we adapt or go out.

Would the smoking ordinance hurt some local establishments? Undoubtably. Will some have to lay off employees or even go out of business all together? Very possibly. Still, it is not that different from what all businesses face.

I am not unsympathetic to the owners and employees who may face hard times if this ordinance goes into effect. Not by any means. I just gave examples that effect my company and it's employees.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Agreed. Where is the science to back up your conclusion that it is a "purely cosmetic" problem?

I would also ask all to remember, I have already stated that my vote, right now, would have to be no on the ordinance. It would take more time for me to study the effects of SHS. I have not taken the time..., well, life gets in the way and I don't have an official vote. If I did have an official vote, I would make the time.

All4Word said...

What is the difference between a heifer and a steer??

ecology warrior said...

pardon the pun but sam anderson will smoke King Gahan in 2011

Tim F said...

Hi, since my comments at the last council meeting are among the topics for this blog, I thought I would contribute to it, if for no other reason than to clarify my comments.

My turn followed a number of speakers, including at least two physicians--the health officer and a cardiologist, who attested to the scientific evidence basis for smokefree workplace laws and the negative health impact of secondhand smoke. The health basis for the reasons for and effectiveness of comprehensive smokefree workplace laws were well covered before I got up to the podium.

So, when I spoke, it was to address the issue of economic impact, as that was a topic about there has been some discussion that evening.

The gist of what I said then, I'll say again here: a great many objective, peer reviewed studies show there is no negative impact to the hospitality industry due to smokefree workplace laws.

The tobacco industry created the idea that there would be negative economic impact to the hospitality industry as a way to build opposition to smokefree workplace laws and they have been using this tactic as far back as the late 1980s. The tobacco industry has worked for years nationally through the National Licensed Beverage Association and locally through the state hospitality associations to spread the myth that smokefree laws result in negative economic impact from the hospitality industry, so it is not a surprise to hear people express concern about that very topic. Of course local members of these hospitality associations would express concern that there may be a loss of business when they have been told there will be by their associations who have partnered with the tobacco industry to spread that message.

The tobacco industry has worked for years to convince hospitality owners to install ventilation as a "solution" to the problem posed by secondhand smoke--even though the tobacco companies themselves acknowledge ventilation does not eliminate health risk due to secondhand smoke, and the tobacco industry wants the hospitality industry to talk about these ventilation systems as a way to thwart effective smokefree workplace laws.

You can read about the tobacco industry's partnership with hospitality associations to thwart smokefree workplace laws,

here... http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/NLBA.pdf
or here... http://www.no-smoke.org/document.php?id=275
or here... http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/NRA.pdf
or here... http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/dop27d00/pdf

Or go here to read about efforts of the state hospitality associations in Indiana on behalf of the tobacco industry even more than a decade ago to spread the myth of negative economic impact:

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/rpx97d00/pdf
http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/qpx97d00/pdf
http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/lpx97d00/pdf
http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/mpx97d00/pdf

So, some may not agree with my position on the smokefree workplace law, and some may not care to hear that the idea of negative economic impact was invented by the tobacco industry as a way to scare the hospitality industry and policymakers into believing that will be the case so they will fight smokefree workplace laws, but it is true.

In fact, Philip Morris was worried as far back as 1994 that the scare tactics were not working and that people just weren't buying the false claims of negative ecnomic impact.

From an internal Philip Morris document:

"...economic arguments often used by the [tobacco] industry to scare off smoking ban activity were no longer working, if indeed they ever did. These arguments simply had no credibility with the public, which isn't surprising when you consider our dire predictions in the past rarely came true." [read it here, pg 28 -- http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/vnf77e00/pdf]

Further, at the council meeting, I encouraged council members to listen to the perspective of someone who had been through the matter previously -- Mike Scanlon -- who wrote a letter to each council member addressing the issue both as a person who owns 90+ hospitality establishments in 4 states and who also happens to be the Deputy Mayor of Lexington, KY. Mr. Scanlon said it was a good business decision for the businesses he owns and also a good decision from the perspective of economic development for Lexington. Mr. Scanlon said there had been no negative economic impact on the hospitality industry due to a comprehensive smokefree workplace law in Lexington.

Not only is there no negative economic impact attributable to smokefree workplace laws, but also the health harm due to secondhand smoke exposure in workplace and the health costs associated with that harm cost communities in terms of economic development and jobs. Secondhand smoke exposure in workplaces causes greater sickness and death, and the costs associated with that ultimately drives new economic development away from cities that are not smokefree. The Indiana Economic Development Corporation's plan for improving and accelerating economic development in Indiana specifically call on cities and towns to adopt smokefree workplace laws as a way to encourage economic development. Go here to read the IEDC report [pg 28]: http://www.bsu.edu/cecd/media/pdf/strategic-plan-04-21-06.pdf.

Also, the American Academy of Actuaries issued a report in 2006 that said medical costs and economic losses due to secondhand smoke exposure were more than $6 Billion in the US each year. [http://www.actuary.org/pdf/health/smoking_oct06.pdf].


I don't know if this will help inform anyone's opinion on the smokefree issue, but I just wanted at least to clarify my comments for those who were unable to make it to the hearing themselves. I'm sorry if this blog's author took my comments personally as they were not intended as such.

I do find this blog very informative and well-written, aside from the stuff about secondhand smoke, smokefree workplaces and me.


T Filler

[sorry if this message posted more than once, my computering is glitchy today]

The New Albanian said...

It's admirable that you came here and wrote.

But you don't seem to have grasped my point. It is indeed negative impact when you displace a regular who's been sitting in the same spot smoking for the past quarter century.

The dispassion with which you dismiss this is indeed testament to your professional ability, but you repeat here what you said during your incorrectly elongated session before the council: We bar owners are children who can't think for ourselves, and are mere unwitting dupes of the tobacco industry.

That's just as insulting as when you said it aloud during your extended opportunity to speak, something that you don't reference here.

Sorry. You aren't i this business, and you don't know what it's lile.

And you never answered my question: Did you contribute toward the Gahan for Mayor '11 campaign to glean those extra minutes?

Just yes or no, if you please.

The New Albanian said...

Someday I'll learn to type. Correction:

"Sorry. You aren't in this business, and you don't know what it's like."

Jeff Gillenwater said...

I'm shocked, New Albanian, to learn that you've been conspiring with big tobacco.

Just think, if Mr. Fuller hadn't told us, you may not have known it yourself. Golly.

Tim F said...

Just one other thing quickly...

I'm sorry to have gone over my allotted time during the council meeting.

I lost track of time in trying to cover all of the material during the meeting that I posted above. Like I said, I was not aware of the time and that was my own mistake.

Also, it is not meant to be insulting to anyone to point out the fact that the tobacco industry wrote in their plans to develop and utilize economic impact concerns that they manufactured to motivate local hospitality industry owners to become third party allies on their behalf to carry the opposition message in local councils across the country. It's a fact, not an insult. Read the tobacco industry's plans -- the internal documents are available as a result of a legal settlement and you can find them online.

I thought it was a fair point to make to the council. When the tobacco industry-- who created the message and manufactured the data to try to show there would be a negative economic impact-- don't really believe the data and say essentially "the people aren't buying it and our claims are not coming to fruition," the policymakers should hear that. Also, when other policymakers and hospitality industry owners have been through the same thing and say there’s no negative economic impact, that seems to be something council members should hear.

Here’s a meta-analysis on this topic for more information:
http://76.12.245.50/pdf/ScolloTC.pdf

That doesn't make the concerns of those people who have them any less real. I’m sure those concerns are real, but the data shows that the economy is not affected by smokefree workplace laws.

A smokefree workplace law won’t prevent smokers or nonsmokers from coming in to any establishment anywhere in New Albany, they just step outside to smoke. People still want to socialize, drink, dance, bowl, dine or whatever, but they keep the smoke outside where it will not jeopardize the health of the workers inside.

I think I’ve gone longer than just the “one thing” so I’ll stop here

T Filler

The New Albanian said...

Paraphrased from the Manic Street Preachers, "I'm Just a Patsy":

I am just a patsy
The Oswald in Lee Harvey
Made of my own misery
The footprints of history

I am just a patsy
I sell vague conspiracy
I'm slow and I'm easy
And I'm waiting for delivery

I'm just a patsy for Big Tobacco
I need an angel from above
To a life depraved and lost
Inevitable like scars and dust
I'm just a patsy for Big Tobacco

Even with the most control
Tied to fragments born and grown
All fucked up with nowhere to go
The best thing I ever saw

I am just a patsy
I sell vague conspiracy
I'm slow and I'm easy
And I'm waiting for delivery

I'm just a patsy for Big Tobacco
I need an angel from above
To a life depraved and lost
Inevitable like scars and dust
I'm just a patsy for Big Tobacco
A patsy for Big Tobacco
I am just a patsy

I'm just a patsy for Big Tobacco
I need an angel from above
To a life depraved and lost
Inevitable like scars and dust
I'm just a patsy for Big Tobacco

The New Albanian said...

The council president might have used an egg timer, but I digress.

Tim, I imagine I'll see you on the morrow, in front of New Albany's City-County Bldg.

I'm sure you're "driven" in a positive manner by your role in all this. It's isn't that I don't appreciate that. It's that, to repeat, you are essentially clueless as to the human aspect of this for a pub owner.

You've done the impossible. You've rendered me a populist. Fuck.

Jeff Gillenwater said...

A smokefree workplace law won’t prevent smokers or nonsmokers from coming in to any establishment anywhere in New Albany, they just step outside to smoke. People still want to socialize, drink, dance, bowl, dine or whatever, but they keep the smoke outside where it will not jeopardize the health of the workers inside.

Having lived 33 of my 36 years in the general vicinity of New Albany, I can testify from those years of firsthand experience that the above is patently false. In real world terms, it means my tax dollars are being used by a stranger to the community to spread falsehoods. Driven or not, Mr. Filler is apparently a paid liar.

Can anyone explain how that amounts to good government, particularly when we have a council president who openly favors such claptrap?

Retiree said...

Filler as well as the other paid lobbyists always cherry pick the reports to support their falsehood. They never acknowledge the fact their holy grail, the 1992 EPA report, was based on flawed assumptions and the conclusions were not supported by reliable scientific evidence. For this reason the report has been largely discredited and, in 1998, was legally vacated by a federal judge.

Even so, the EPA report was cited in the surgeon general's 2006 report on SHS, where then Surgeon General Richard Carmona made the absurd claim that there is no risk-free level of exposure to SHS.

This information was taken from the article of Dr. Jerome Arnett Jr., a pulmonologist, and published by The Heartland Institute @ www.heartland.org .

Or if your really interested in the true side of the coin read the study done by James E. Enstrom and Geoffrey Kabat entitled "Evironmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98". This study was published in the British Medical Journal in 2003 after rigorous peer review to even be considered and published. You never hear of this study because the anti-smoking groups want to downplay their findings because it is not the answer they were seeking. This study proves their argument wrong and they aren't willing to accept that! To read the study go to http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057.

The truth is there if you want to search and find it for yourself and not believe the fearmongers.

All4Word said...

Thanks, Mr. Filler.

Highwayman said...

Funny you should mention the egg timer NAC.

President Gahan had one sitting on the table in front of him!

Conclusions are obvious.

William Lang said...

retiree, you should be aware that the BMJ article by Enstrom and Kabat that you cite has been discredited. A recent article by Tong and Glanz documents the problems with the Enstron and Kabat article:

In 2003, Enstrom and Kabat published in the British Medical Journal a second CIAR-funded analysis of CPS-I on SHS and tobacco-related mortality, examining never-smoking adults exposed to a smoking spouse, and concluded that no statistically significant associations with mortality existed. The tobacco industry publicized the Enstrom and Kabat work around the world. The study was criticized for repeating the same exposure misclassification error as that by LeVois and Layard, despite having been specifically warned by the American Cancer Society that it was inappropriate to use CPS-I for SHS studies. (An analysis of tobacco industry documents revealed that the British Medical Journal financial disclosure requirement was not adequate to give readers and reviewers an appreciation for the authors’ long-standing relationships with the tobacco industry and the fact that the study was a "special project" funded by industry lawyers and executives outside the peer review process.) Both the California Environmental Protection Agency and the US Surgeon Genera subsequently discounted the Enstrom and Kabat study in their evaluations of the health effects of SHS because of the problem in CPS-I with exposure misclassification.

Retiree said...

Lang, as I stated in my posting the Nanny's like to cherry pick their information and use only what is appropriate to sustain their position, not the whole truth! Go to http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=James_E._Enstrom_in_his_own_words to find the answer to your comments about the article I referenced written in the BMJ by Mr. Enstrom & Mr. Gabat.

Sorry I'm so late in responding.

William Lang said...

retiree, thank you for directing my attention to the statement by Engstrom and the Sourcewatch article about him. I was struck by the SourceWatch article, which reports:

BMJ received approximately 150 "rapid response" letters to the [Engstrom and Kabat BMJ] article, most of which sharply criticized Enstrom's findings. One of the respondents was Michael J. Thun, Vice President and head of epidemiology and surveillance research at the American Cancer Society, who pronounced Enstrom and Kabat's study "fatally flawed" because "no information was obtained on sources of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke [in the dataset] other then smoking status of the spouse," and "tobacco smoke was so pervasive in the United states in the 1950s and 1960s that virtually everyone was exposed at home, at work or in other settings."

(My emphasis.) So I remain unconvinced of the validity of Engstrom's research on SHS.

To trust Engstrom over the ACS, the CDC, and the Surgeon General, is to accept a conspiracy theory along the lines suggested by Engstrom in his SourceWatch statement: The exaggeration of the health effects of passive smoking, particularly within in the US, is being driven by powerful US epidemiologists and organizations. I find this particularly hard to believe. If there's any conspiracy regarding the SHS issue, it would be by the tobacco companies, who have a long record of deceit and manipulation.

Retiree said...

Lang, As I said before you as well as the other Nicotine Nazi's all cherry pick only the information that you feel will attempt to advance your falsehoods. By Cherry Pick I mean you apparently went to SourceWatch but, as expected no reference from you to the correct site at that source. I also read the article you cited, but unlike me you either failed to read or do not want to acknowledge Mr. Enstrom's rebuttal to the lies(my word)and/or the fact on March 22,2007 the University of California after investigating Mr. Enstrom, after receiving letters from the ACS alleging "scientific misconduct" stating the investigation completely exonerated him and concluded that the ACS allegations "provide no evidence of scientific misconduct."
This investigation was discussed in a March 30, 2007 commentary entitled "Enstrom Cleared of Scientific Misconduct Charges; AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY OWES HIM AN APOLOGY". (emphasis added)

If your not afraid of the truth go to the same site at SourceWatch as before but add' _in_his_own_words'
that you conveniently failed to type in and/or mention.

Or you can go to the following listed site; http:www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/defense.html and click on the sections to fully understand the validity and significance of the May 17, 2003 BMJ paper.

Which I doubt is your intention of criticizing any posting of us that favor CHOICE!

The New Albanian said...

Thanks to both of you for this debate. It has been informative. The tone, particularly from Retiree, suggests that we approach the end of the string in terms of functional utility.

This is a gentle way of asking that you pick it up elsewhere, perhaps by private e-mail.

Thanks.

Retiree said...

New Albanian, No problem. Thank you for the opportunity for debate via way of your blog site.

The New Albanian said...

Thanks, Retiree. I have a feeling that we'll be picking this back up in the immediate future, because I doubt that it'll be going away for long.

William Lang said...

Thank you for blowing the whistle on us, The New Albanian, and thank you so much for your hospitality on this blog.