Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Sect leader denounces Scribner Place, contemplates self-immolation at job site.

But matches cost money ...

According to today’s Courier-Journal, incremental progress toward Scribner Place construction continues to be made

Scribner Place timetable discussed; Hearing addresses contingency funds, by Ben Zion Hershberg.

Here are excerpts:

Construction on the Scribner Place development in New Albany will begin in late July or early August, city officials said yesterday.

The comments by John Rosenbarger, the director of the city's redevelopment commission, and City Attorney Shane Gibson followed a federally required public hearing yesterday before $12 million to $13 million in bonds can be issued for the development …

… Dave Huckleberry, one of four people who spoke at yesterday's hearing, isn't among those excited about the development.

"A lot of questions were asked that were never answered" about the costs of Scribner Place, he said at the hearing.

He also said he believes the complex "is not going to be equitable" because some people won't be able to afford to use the YMCA.

Wait ... "equitable"?

Thass one-a them $10 p-p-pergessive words, ain’t it?


ceece said...

I wonder how many people can't afford to shop at Target or Kroger, should we make them leave?

Also, there are SEVERAL programs
the YMCA has setup to assist with the cost of membership. Do your homework Huck, the YMCA is one business in New Albany that is committed to helping and serving EVERYONE.

Tim Deatrick said...

To clarify for all, the $$$$$$ poser at speakoutloud, I mean speak out misinformed stated that FMSM did not show at the last storm water advisory committee meeting this past monday, gee I guess Steve Mayes, an FMSM engineer who served as the faciltator monday night must have quit FMSM earlier in the day.

Also $$$$$ stated that the SWAC did not endorse the increase in the Storm water user fee recommended by the sewer board to the city council, wrong again. The committee members that were there voted in favor to support the fee, except Melanie Hughes who abstained.

Also earlier in solna's misinformed past, the always well informed Laura Oates stated that the SWAC's last meeting was this past Monday, wrong again, we are meeting in June and will continue to meet until a board is formed, which the city council should form by July.

East Ender said...

Not really sure what Universe you're living in 'lil timmy, but our interpretation of the events of the Stormwater Advisory Committee (SWAC) meeting are somewhat different than yours.
Now, we’ll give you that there was an FMSM employee at the SWAC meeting, but he didn’t do a great job of ‘facilitating’ as some people there had no idea who he was.
Furthermore, our understanding is that 3 members of the SWAC were absent, which left 4 members in attendance. One, Melanie Hughes, abstained from voting on the motion you made to give a favorable recommendation, which John Gonder reluctantly seconded, and at that point we figure it really doesn’t matter much what the other guy thinks.
If that’s a recommendation in your world, well, you don’t need much to be encouraged on now do you? (could explain a lot)
Anyway, our last point is that no meeting has been scheduled for June, and an FMSM employee DID tell people personally that this past meeting would probably be the last meeting.
That would be our take on things.
Perhaps, if you wiped that CRAP off your glasses, you may actually be able to tell what’s going on around you (and what isn’t).

East Ender said...

Ceece -
Just curious. Who said anything about making folks who can't afford a Y membership leave?
Leave town you mean?
Just trying to follow your logic.

All4Word said...

Ah, there goes that trick discernment again...sober, rational folk here about understood clearly Ceece's query?

Should we make KROGER or TARGET leave?


The New Albanian said...

Joining the exodus to Dan Coffey's Birdseye paradise?

Hmm, might want to wipe that %^$#$ off your computer screen, EE.

East Ender said...

Has ANYONE ever suggested the YMCA NOT be built?
Duh...I don't think so.
But what should you do about the folks who have no interest in joining the YMCA, whether they can afford it or not?
Should EVERYONE be expected to join anyway?
No you say?
Well, you're certainly agreeing that EVERYONE must help pay for it.
At least that's how it would be with the plan that's in place now.
However, if they ONLY build the YMCA, and wait on the Swimming pools, the blows to the rate-payers won't be nearly as severe.
We've just signed an agreement with the EPA that says we'll spend $500K per year on inner-city sewer line repairs.
Instead of taking on a $17 million Bond, put that annual $400K EDIT money towards the Sewer repairs until the EPA is satisfied & oversight is lifted (3 years?)THEN build the frikin' swimming pools as an expansion of the YMCA!
A WIN, WIN, WIN situation.
By then, so much new development will be in New Albany that our coffers will be overstuffed with money.
Well, at least according to your plan.

The New Albanian said...

"Has ANYONE ever suggested the YMCA NOT be built?
Duh...I don't think so."

It is typically disingenuous of you to deny your personal involvement in helping to persuade your dozen followers to make frequent attacks on Scribner Place and to urge it not to be built any time unrelated topics are broached.

At various times, you've taken various positions, almost never having anything to do with Scribner Place, but with opportunities to use Scribner Place as a bludgeon for your anthemic "we can't" regressiveness.

Go back and read the postings on your own spitwad blogyard. Ugly, often anonymous ... and damning.

The incrementalist "solution" you offer here is equally vapid. An incredibly small amount of money is being required for the city to leverage further investment in downtown; delaying the pool means only one thing to a congenital obstructionist, and that's the opportunity to complain about the higher price three years down the line.


Might testy these days, EastdistEnded.

East Ender said...

How typical of you to respond with personal attacks. It's really getting boring.
This is about using good sense and in no way echos a "we can't" refrain. This is about "we must".
The City is under obligation to comply with the Federal Clean Water Act by making the necessary investments to repair the sewage system.
This is REQUIRED before any significant development can occur because without it, we have no sewer credits to issue. Regardless of how many businesses might be attracted by Scribner.
I have never spoken against building the YMCA, but the swimming pools are another story.
We must commit to 'Smart Growth' if we are to truly succeed.

The New Albanian said...

But Laura, you certainly HAVE encouraged such protests.

But, you're right. Enough. My request is this: At SOLNA, post the precepts of Smart Growth as you define it. Perhaps we can agree on something.

Tim Deatrick said...

how typical of you to respond with personal attacks laura and of course bad information, FYI 3 members were present at the SWAC mtg not 4 you better get bill schmidt to check his math since he was there and obviously your source of bad info.

Yes a mtg is scheduled in June. also on bills schmidt's handout he asked for on your behalf or whoever he was there representing.

perhaps if you wiped that ignorance off your high brow you might actually get the right info next time or at least send a more reliable messenger.

A Democrat in Floyd County said...

And Timmy, perhaps if you get down from your high horse, you may too be able to read Robert's Rules of Order. YOU were there, MELANIE HUGHES was there, and JOHN GONDER was there.
There was a mix up on whether that was Mayes or Marty chairing the meeting -- but the Board consists of SEVEN people, not 3.
There still is no way you had a quorum to even have a meeting, much less call for a vote.
A SWAC member WAS told by Mr. Mayes this would probably be the last Stormwater Mtg, and that was said in FRONT OF WITNESSES before the City Council meeting.
Are you that anxious to sell your soul out just to be on the new Board Garner wants to head and has promised you a position that you just don't get it? Or is there something else you just aren't able to comprehend?
Personally, for all of you that do not wish to discuss the issues and are happy to pay all of these new fees, rate hikes, Bonds back by your property taxes (like you have any Timmy), then more power to you. Noone can argue that point with you if that's the way you feel.

But, for those people who have been working on straightening out these finances and getting some infrastructure and enforcement of laws in this town for a while now, and don't have your monies -- it is really getting old.

For that reason, I have created my own blog. Now, maybe we can try and communicate with each other -- but at the same time, can we try and play "nice"?


Jeff Gillenwater said...


The Mayor has publicly stated several times that he would prefer that the existing Sewer Board take on the responsibilities of the stormwater mandate rather than form a new board.

Further, your comments tend to peppered with references to "our monies" as if you and others who might happen to agree with you are all barely eeking out a hardscrabble existence while those who don't agree with you are a part of some imagined financial elite. It's simply not true.

One of the components necessary to playing nice is honesty, both intellectual and factual. Why not start there?

The New Albanian said...

"Smart growth" is old hat at NA Confidential.

From the Volunteer Hoosier of July 5, 2005 (reprinted at NAC, comes these "talking points" in favor of Scribner Place.


1. Scribner Place is the essence of what a city can do to spur investment.

2. Scribner Place offers the lifestyle amenities demanded by prospective new businesses and residents. Furthermore, it creates an environment that will foster investment in more such amenities.

3. Scribner Place takes full advantage of the already-built infrastructure of downtown and promises to bring restaurants, pubs, music venues, retailers, and office jobs back to downtown.

4. The best financing plan does not threaten to raise property taxes. Option 1 would conserve city resources, promote a stronger and more vibrant tax base, and keep property taxes lower than they would otherwise be.

5. The aquatic center is more than a swimming pool for the "elite." It will offer a place for recreation and exercise to all comers, with city (and presumably county) residents able to buy passes. Its possible management by the YMCA, extended hours, and year-round operation makes it a real draw to outlying communities that could make it a revenue generator.

6. A "yes" vote sends the signal that New Albany is changing its attitude toward commercial investment, tourism, and lifestyle amenities. A "no" vote will likely be the death knell for downtown and will relegate New Albany to years of faltering services and higher taxes. As a bedroom community for Louisville, New Albany and Floyd County can't survive on residential development alone.

7. Downtown is uniquely suited to the type of specialty independent retailing that contributes most to a community. Independent businesses throw off 75% more to the local economy than does the same size chain store. A thriving and compact downtown business district, once rejuvenated by Scribner Place, will be a benefit to the environment by curbing the trend toward urban sprawl.

8. Having a livable community is the goal. Scribner Place is a big step in that direction.

9. Investment capital will look to the city and county as partners instead of as impediments. As participants in development, the city and county can create a development environment that serves their citizens instead of the speculators and slumlords. Scribner Place announces that smart growth is the future for Floyd County.

10. With city/county involvement, the YMCA can proceed to build a state-of-the-art facility that will be the gem of the metro region.

11. With city/county involvement, further development initiatives can begin right away. One investor is considering immediate investment by building additional stories above the YMCA for offices and conference centers. The demand for that space is there right now, with one tenant ready to sign a lease if the private investment comes through.

12. Isn't it about time Floyd County and New Albany as governments began to see a return on the outlays we make to accommodate a nearby casino? Can we possibly turn down $20 million in private money from Caesars Foundation?

Tim Deatrick said...

FYI Yvonne, the stormwater advisory committee recommended a $3.50 residential interim fee initially, remember? But no you and your band of ill informed malcontents had to play the politics of fear and lobby against it at city council meetings, thus we were stuck with an unrealistic interim fee of $2.00 per residential and the paltry $18.00 commericial rate.

Now that we have a realistic and sound billing rate that by the way is a typical rate for most stormwater utilities you want to try the same old worn out sabotage tactics that you are so famous for.

Oh but you are more than willing to call the EPA and IDEM whenever the city has a sewer problem aren't you?

By the way Yvonne, your calling me "Timmy" is actually flattering it implies I hold my age well, that's what living a healty life does for a person, keeps them young, moderate drinking and no smoking will do wonders for a person, in fact I might join the new YMCA.

Also for the record Yvonne, officially we endorsed the proposed $3.17 ERU rate on Monday, not my problem you werent there but if you like why dont you call the other SWAC members I think the outcome will still be one in favor of the sewer board recommended fee, have a nice day

A Democrat in Floyd County said...

Bluegill, The original recommendation of the SWAC was for this to be put under the Sewers; even the Engineers (Solomon & Utz) wanted it there.

You'll have to ask some one higher up (preferably someone other than Timmy) for that answer. We are in the dark and can't answer that question, nor can we answer any administrative cost questions, nor do we know of any projects they are planning on doing.

It's funny you would reference to how I refer to ALL OF OUR MONIES. It has been pointed out, when I was introduced at a Kiwanas' meeting locally, that I do tend to think in those relevant terms -- IT'S MY MONEY. The funny thing is, the gentleman whom introduced me told everyone there this town might be in better shape than it is if people did have my mind set and think that way. Guess it all depends on how you express yourself, hey?

BUT, and gee there seems to always be 1 of those, as a taxpayer advocate I am looking out (or trying) for those of us who don't have the monies to barely exist these days, based on high costs across the table. And, I am insisting on accountability with our monies and the sewers. I know it may be a drag...but gee, someone has to do it. We certainly don't enjoy ourselves. That should make some people feel better.
Appreciate your comment -- but no, I don't feel that people who have more monies I tend to disagree with, and I certainly am not implying I am living hand to mouth (though I guess it could happen at any moment to any of us), huh?
Have a good 'un.

Tim Deatrick said...

Hey Yvonne if you will recall, the sewer board has stated very clearly that they do not wish to or have the resources to manage the storm water rule 13 program now do what you do best and keep an eye on the weather so you can send out the potty patrol to the sso sites.

A Democrat in Floyd County said...


Will you please inform Timmy the Mayor does want this under the Sewer Board, and so did Solomon and Utz? It is all political from here on out how that board is set up and under who and which department, if any.

Timmy, I am sorry you are being delayed in your Board appointment, but me thinks Mr. Seabrook "pulled" or "tabled" that item on the agenda at the last Counci meeting. Your words are so bitter, I felt maybe you missed that part.

Leaving to go all have a good Memorial Day.

Tim Deatrick said...

yvonne get a reality check, the sewer board doesn not want to manage the storm water program and Sebrook only tabled it because certain amendments had not been inserted at the alst council meeting. And why would you ask bluegill to tell me the sewer board's intentions?

Now go fishing and quit telling fish tales

Rick Carmickle said...

is (A Democrat in Floyd County) the same democrat that was overheard telling another fellow democrat that they should vote republican in the primary?

I know I have heard this story before, was that you?

May be you really should change parties!

Have a nice day!

The New Albanian said...

Rumor has it that Dan Coffey was overheard saying that he wouldn't run for office again as a Democrat.

Is this true?

If it is true, would he run as an independent, Huey Long populist, Republican or fascist?

And if it's true, is the Democratic Party leadership hastening his exit?

Just curious. Mah 'pinion, etc.

Jeff Gillenwater said...

It would indeed be interesting to hear how Coffey's alleged renunciation of the party is being handled.

For those who play the partisan game, it would seem pertinent to know if someone who gladly uses the party's constituency for support was secretly bashing the party platform. If I were a Democrat, I'd certainly want to know the truth of the matter before pulling a straight ticket lever.

ceece said...

at least Long was inclined towards progress!