... there'll be no live blogging. Best I can tell, the Internet connection disappears at night.
I'll post notes later.
Showing posts with label live blogging. Show all posts
Showing posts with label live blogging. Show all posts
Thursday, September 03, 2009
Thursday, July 16, 2009
7th visitation: EDIT for police. Nay to 2nd reading ... but "yes" to the amended (reduced) 3rd reading.
INTRODUCTION OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS: READING
A-09-09 Additional Appropriation Ordinance from the E.D.I.T. Fund for the Police Department (2 & 3 Zurschmiede)
Well, here it is.
No discussion
No: Caesar, Price, McLaughlin, Gahan, Gonder
Yes: Benedetti, Messer, Zurschmiede, Coffey
Defeated in the 2nd reading.
Messer: Would like to amend the ordinance to $500,000, which would allow for some restaffing.
Benedetti seconds, and a vigorous discussion ensues. Messer mentioned money previously approved but not spent. Coffey says he's been urging to put "police in the pipeline." Coffey compares levels of interest in police, hazardous sites, etc.
Price: Everyone told me 5 wouldn't do it. "I don't play poker ... I don't like politics," when you wait until the last minute to do this ... that's wrong ... "I don't play poker." Upset that he previously asked if 5 would do, but everyone said no. Now he's hurt.
Coffey: "Y'all mind if the chief says something?"
Chief Crabtree: States his case. 13 officers can retire at any moment.
Price: "Hurts the reputation of the department when it says in the paper" that an "officer is eating breakfast" and "I don't even know if it's true ... "
Huh?
Crabtree: Entitled to lunch. Every department allows breaks. "There's no such thing as Robo-Cop."
Haub: "Not an issue of playing politics," but if you remember 2008 and the original presentation, and the DEA's criticism. The city has to grow up and show it's serious about fighting crime. The department has stepped up and followed the DEA's recommendations, but the council has to help meet the other condition: Increased manpower.
Erika and her gnarled friend now stand up and glare toward the chair.
Haub continues. The sheriff pocketed the drug seizure money recently, not the city police.
Price: "If I was a policeman, I'd vote for you."
Haub: Louisville gets money for drug interdiction, NA gets nothing. "I'm not trying to call your bluff."
Price: eyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyfiveeyeydoiteyeyey
Pat McLaughlin: "I don't buy it either."
Acrimony.
Council votes for the amendment: Caesar flips, and the amendment passes 5-4 against.
Final vote on the original wording. Now and only now Caesar asks: Where does the money go if approved.
Now he asks. Before the third reading. Seriously.
Now the council starts talking about when and how the money would be spent.
Price: What is we have to make cuts later?
More acrimony.
KZ: How much notice do the retirement guys have to give?
Crabtree: None.
Coffey: Call for the vote.
Vote, 3rd reading
Caesar flips again from 1st and 2nd readings, and on the 3rd, the council approves the EDIT funding reduced by half. 5-4, Caesar making a majority.
Finished at 10:35 pm. Erika is very unhappy.
A-09-09 Additional Appropriation Ordinance from the E.D.I.T. Fund for the Police Department (2 & 3 Zurschmiede)
Well, here it is.
No discussion
No: Caesar, Price, McLaughlin, Gahan, Gonder
Yes: Benedetti, Messer, Zurschmiede, Coffey
Defeated in the 2nd reading.
Messer: Would like to amend the ordinance to $500,000, which would allow for some restaffing.
Benedetti seconds, and a vigorous discussion ensues. Messer mentioned money previously approved but not spent. Coffey says he's been urging to put "police in the pipeline." Coffey compares levels of interest in police, hazardous sites, etc.
Price: Everyone told me 5 wouldn't do it. "I don't play poker ... I don't like politics," when you wait until the last minute to do this ... that's wrong ... "I don't play poker." Upset that he previously asked if 5 would do, but everyone said no. Now he's hurt.
Coffey: "Y'all mind if the chief says something?"
Chief Crabtree: States his case. 13 officers can retire at any moment.
Price: "Hurts the reputation of the department when it says in the paper" that an "officer is eating breakfast" and "I don't even know if it's true ... "
Huh?
Crabtree: Entitled to lunch. Every department allows breaks. "There's no such thing as Robo-Cop."
Haub: "Not an issue of playing politics," but if you remember 2008 and the original presentation, and the DEA's criticism. The city has to grow up and show it's serious about fighting crime. The department has stepped up and followed the DEA's recommendations, but the council has to help meet the other condition: Increased manpower.
Erika and her gnarled friend now stand up and glare toward the chair.
Haub continues. The sheriff pocketed the drug seizure money recently, not the city police.
Price: "If I was a policeman, I'd vote for you."
Haub: Louisville gets money for drug interdiction, NA gets nothing. "I'm not trying to call your bluff."
Price: eyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyfiveeyeydoiteyeyey
Pat McLaughlin: "I don't buy it either."
Acrimony.
Council votes for the amendment: Caesar flips, and the amendment passes 5-4 against.
Final vote on the original wording. Now and only now Caesar asks: Where does the money go if approved.
Now he asks. Before the third reading. Seriously.
Now the council starts talking about when and how the money would be spent.
Price: What is we have to make cuts later?
More acrimony.
KZ: How much notice do the retirement guys have to give?
Crabtree: None.
Coffey: Call for the vote.
Vote, 3rd reading
Caesar flips again from 1st and 2nd readings, and on the 3rd, the council approves the EDIT funding reduced by half. 5-4, Caesar making a majority.
Finished at 10:35 pm. Erika is very unhappy.
Sixth installment of "live" and increasingly "dead" blogging: Resolutions, ordinances and scenery chewing.
INTRODUCTION OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS: READING
R-09-16 Resolution To Appropriate E.D.I.T Funds To Assist Residents With Damages Caused By Recent Storms And Flooding (Gahan)
Bob Caesar adds his addendum to the Gahan resolution. Because it is a resolution, it can be introduced in modified form.
Coffey: Who enforces this? Answer is: Stormwater Board. Coffey rolls his eyes.
Jack Messer notes that stormwater has a machine for trenching that it is not using and hasn't for seven months.
Kevin Zurschmiede (first comment, 2:15 into the meeting): Accountability! They're not here because we have tough questions for them! Every deppartment needs to be accountable! Namechecks Erika. "There's no accountability." KZ grandstands about accountability, the new mantra.
Caesar: "We have to do something for these people," and "start now, not in nine months."
Benedetti: But we give them money and it doesn't change! How do we change that?
Coffey: Cut 'em, cut 'em.
Price: We had to sue to do something.
Messer: This administration hires people who won't work. Need different contractors, new people. They're not working.
Benedetti: Something about Ron Carroll hiring or paying too much to someone. Now they're getting tired and mumbling all at once.
Coffey: Bob wants to hire college kids for creek cleaning, and Kay Garry found out that the stormwater slackers already allotted money for this! We'll approve the $25,000 requested by Caesar for cleaning up cricks. Where to take it from?
Marcey: Kay and I figured it out. Explains the part-time scheme. It would take about $23,400.
Discussion about how to pay them.
Messer: Corrections people?
Paul Haub: "Use community service people." They could do it for free.
Coffey: The other $75,000? Where? To the people?
Gahan: The stormwater board makes that decision.
Benedetti: "What do I say to the people who come up to me" and can't afford the repairs?
Gahan: Stormwater and sewers make these decisions every day?
WE HAVE NOTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING A RULING CLASS IN THIS CITY. WE HAVE SPENT AS MUCH TIME ON OLD GRIEVANCES TONIGHT AS ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE THIS IS ISSUE IS NOT CAPABLE OF BEING SOLVED BY DISBURSING MONEY TO THE FLOODING VICTIMS. THIS IS OF A SCOPE THAT ELUDES THEM ALL.
Coffey: Attorneys will swarm if some people get money and others don't.
They're arguing about the terms of a city-wide bailout.
Shane Gibson speaks: We try to determine on a case by case basis. Sewer claims have a $25,000 deductible. Most of the current crop would go past deductible. No specifics, but never this many problems. Many of these claims will be handled by the insurance company.
Gahan: Still a council issue, because "we have to come up with the big fix" and tackle the problems presented tonight.
Really? THEM?
Coffey: "Why do we need this $75,000?"
Gibson: The extent of this problem is for the insurance company. The deductibles owed by the city will come from the sewer utility, as it has done in the past. Now getting claims. No idea of the total cost when all is said and done.
***Gibson: "We still have to determine if the city is liable." Not comfortable just throwing money out because it can't be policed ... because it would not lend itself to accountability. Recommends it be specifically earmarked for the emrgency stormwater.
But that would run counter to Coffey's aim of kneecapping stormwater.
Vote: Price hems, haws, squawks and votessssss yes. Messer abstains. Zurschmiede now speaks up about water in his building, abstains. Coffey abstains. 6 yes, three abstain, I think.
Bizarre.
R-09-17 Resolution Concerning Statement of Benefits For VTI of Indiana Door, Inc, DBA Ideal Door Division by the Common Council (Gonder)
Marcey Wisman reads amendment to transform the abatement to five years for equipment. Unanimously approved.
R-09-18 Resolution to Fund the City Portion of a Fire Department Grant to Purchase a Multi-Task Emergency Vehicle (Gonder)
This is what the fire department is here to discuss. Poor guys. They got a grant for most of it, need $47,000 as the department's share. Coffey hates to turn it down because some other grants don't require matches. The chief explains. Vote by hand: Unanimos in favor.
Coming back for the grand finale.
R-09-16 Resolution To Appropriate E.D.I.T Funds To Assist Residents With Damages Caused By Recent Storms And Flooding (Gahan)
Bob Caesar adds his addendum to the Gahan resolution. Because it is a resolution, it can be introduced in modified form.
Coffey: Who enforces this? Answer is: Stormwater Board. Coffey rolls his eyes.
Jack Messer notes that stormwater has a machine for trenching that it is not using and hasn't for seven months.
Kevin Zurschmiede (first comment, 2:15 into the meeting): Accountability! They're not here because we have tough questions for them! Every deppartment needs to be accountable! Namechecks Erika. "There's no accountability." KZ grandstands about accountability, the new mantra.
Caesar: "We have to do something for these people," and "start now, not in nine months."
Benedetti: But we give them money and it doesn't change! How do we change that?
Coffey: Cut 'em, cut 'em.
Price: We had to sue to do something.
Messer: This administration hires people who won't work. Need different contractors, new people. They're not working.
Benedetti: Something about Ron Carroll hiring or paying too much to someone. Now they're getting tired and mumbling all at once.
Coffey: Bob wants to hire college kids for creek cleaning, and Kay Garry found out that the stormwater slackers already allotted money for this! We'll approve the $25,000 requested by Caesar for cleaning up cricks. Where to take it from?
Marcey: Kay and I figured it out. Explains the part-time scheme. It would take about $23,400.
Discussion about how to pay them.
Messer: Corrections people?
Paul Haub: "Use community service people." They could do it for free.
Coffey: The other $75,000? Where? To the people?
Gahan: The stormwater board makes that decision.
Benedetti: "What do I say to the people who come up to me" and can't afford the repairs?
Gahan: Stormwater and sewers make these decisions every day?
WE HAVE NOTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING A RULING CLASS IN THIS CITY. WE HAVE SPENT AS MUCH TIME ON OLD GRIEVANCES TONIGHT AS ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE THIS IS ISSUE IS NOT CAPABLE OF BEING SOLVED BY DISBURSING MONEY TO THE FLOODING VICTIMS. THIS IS OF A SCOPE THAT ELUDES THEM ALL.
Coffey: Attorneys will swarm if some people get money and others don't.
They're arguing about the terms of a city-wide bailout.
Shane Gibson speaks: We try to determine on a case by case basis. Sewer claims have a $25,000 deductible. Most of the current crop would go past deductible. No specifics, but never this many problems. Many of these claims will be handled by the insurance company.
Gahan: Still a council issue, because "we have to come up with the big fix" and tackle the problems presented tonight.
Really? THEM?
Coffey: "Why do we need this $75,000?"
Gibson: The extent of this problem is for the insurance company. The deductibles owed by the city will come from the sewer utility, as it has done in the past. Now getting claims. No idea of the total cost when all is said and done.
***Gibson: "We still have to determine if the city is liable." Not comfortable just throwing money out because it can't be policed ... because it would not lend itself to accountability. Recommends it be specifically earmarked for the emrgency stormwater.
But that would run counter to Coffey's aim of kneecapping stormwater.
Vote: Price hems, haws, squawks and votessssss yes. Messer abstains. Zurschmiede now speaks up about water in his building, abstains. Coffey abstains. 6 yes, three abstain, I think.
Bizarre.
R-09-17 Resolution Concerning Statement of Benefits For VTI of Indiana Door, Inc, DBA Ideal Door Division by the Common Council (Gonder)
Marcey Wisman reads amendment to transform the abatement to five years for equipment. Unanimously approved.
R-09-18 Resolution to Fund the City Portion of a Fire Department Grant to Purchase a Multi-Task Emergency Vehicle (Gonder)
This is what the fire department is here to discuss. Poor guys. They got a grant for most of it, need $47,000 as the department's share. Coffey hates to turn it down because some other grants don't require matches. The chief explains. Vote by hand: Unanimos in favor.
Coming back for the grand finale.
Part Five: Yes, we are at the end of public speaking time. Bailouts, anyone?
COMMUNICATIONS – CITY OFFICIALS
Jeff Gahan begins by reading a letter about drainage written by a Savannah Drive resident, condemns "a recurring theme" unchecked development. Reads another letter: "Just do something." $75,000 isn't enough. Open to how it's handled, whether it comes from EDIT or where. Doesn't matter, as long as "we address it." must take some action tonight."
Benedetti: "My heart goes out" to all the victims. Are we opening something that could be open-ended? We had asked for people to fill out tort claims for the lawyers to examine. "We know 75's not enough," but the lawyers should come back after examining the tort claims to tell us what is and isn't coming.
Gahan: Asks whether anyone from storm, sewer or EMC is present. Nope. He doesn't want it to be direct reimbursement to people, because Benedetti is afraid that it will turn into direct reimbursement.
Price: Every time we throw out money ... stormwater wasn't supposed to be paid in the beginning ... raises, promotions ... "we're in a depression" ... "code enforcement, whatever it is, tired of money going in someone's pocket."
Not his, though.
Gahan wants the crowd to return and monitor the votes. Tonight a resolution.
Price: Isn't it going to open up ... mumble ... "everyone in New Albany has had some kind of problem." ould be a "major tort claim." Coffey refuses to gavel the discussion so that he can determine how best to interject himself into it.
Gonder: Shouldn't we put a moratorium on building and development in the affected areas?
Coffey: Maybe everywhere?
This is fractured and the give and take is fast. Hard for me to keep up. Who gets included? How many are here? Aren't? Procedures? Who to thrash?
Coffey: "I'm going to call a spade a spade -- the people who let this happen" are still there. Wants to have an executive session. Coffey urges Stan Robison to take part in the many meetings to come. Coffey in essence says that the council has to take over all planning and zoning decisions.
Robison: Some developers favored. "Smart-ass" engineer came in and said it was an act of God; problems with enforcement and accountability. The administration shouldn't be dismissive. "Moral more than legal" problem. Council doesn't decide liability, but it controls purse strings. Stormwater raised all those salaries in spite of the council's preference; remember that during budget time. "People have no relief" in spite of raised pay.
COMMUNICATIONS – MAYOR
Not here.
APPOINTMENTS:
Police Merit Commission – Bob Dusch -- approved very fast.
Coming back with more.
Jeff Gahan begins by reading a letter about drainage written by a Savannah Drive resident, condemns "a recurring theme" unchecked development. Reads another letter: "Just do something." $75,000 isn't enough. Open to how it's handled, whether it comes from EDIT or where. Doesn't matter, as long as "we address it." must take some action tonight."
Benedetti: "My heart goes out" to all the victims. Are we opening something that could be open-ended? We had asked for people to fill out tort claims for the lawyers to examine. "We know 75's not enough," but the lawyers should come back after examining the tort claims to tell us what is and isn't coming.
Gahan: Asks whether anyone from storm, sewer or EMC is present. Nope. He doesn't want it to be direct reimbursement to people, because Benedetti is afraid that it will turn into direct reimbursement.
Price: Every time we throw out money ... stormwater wasn't supposed to be paid in the beginning ... raises, promotions ... "we're in a depression" ... "code enforcement, whatever it is, tired of money going in someone's pocket."
Not his, though.
Gahan wants the crowd to return and monitor the votes. Tonight a resolution.
Price: Isn't it going to open up ... mumble ... "everyone in New Albany has had some kind of problem." ould be a "major tort claim." Coffey refuses to gavel the discussion so that he can determine how best to interject himself into it.
Gonder: Shouldn't we put a moratorium on building and development in the affected areas?
Coffey: Maybe everywhere?
This is fractured and the give and take is fast. Hard for me to keep up. Who gets included? How many are here? Aren't? Procedures? Who to thrash?
Coffey: "I'm going to call a spade a spade -- the people who let this happen" are still there. Wants to have an executive session. Coffey urges Stan Robison to take part in the many meetings to come. Coffey in essence says that the council has to take over all planning and zoning decisions.
Robison: Some developers favored. "Smart-ass" engineer came in and said it was an act of God; problems with enforcement and accountability. The administration shouldn't be dismissive. "Moral more than legal" problem. Council doesn't decide liability, but it controls purse strings. Stormwater raised all those salaries in spite of the council's preference; remember that during budget time. "People have no relief" in spite of raised pay.
COMMUNICATIONS – MAYOR
Not here.
APPOINTMENTS:
Police Merit Commission – Bob Dusch -- approved very fast.
Coming back with more.
Council Thursday "live blogging, 4th installment, with the theme now being a new dawning of Coffey-inspired accountability ... and Erika!
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC, continued
12. Sherry Dallman - "I know who owns" the retention lot to buy; there should be no building at 912 Mellwood until drainage is addressed in the area. She's been through this before, and it gets worse. "Keep this lot open." Benedetti chimes in, but I can't hear her.
Price: When you see someone building something, "call us." It "hurt to tell us," because someone told hikm once that "unchecked development would be the ruination of New Albany." He says: "I won't vote for it" (development).
Coffey: "Let your council members know," and call anyone, not just the district representative ...
... because after all, we can't butt in unless we get all the information. The grandstanding tonight is as sickening as I've ever seen it. These people are well-meaning, and Coffey is doing the imperial shuck and jive. He's having "Papa Dan" dialogues with these people.
Coffey: "We depend on what people tell us, but what we've seen tnight and been told it totally different."
Times Coffey has promised a new era of accountability: 4 so far that I remember.
She asks: Who is responsible for these things here:
Coffey: "Well, it's the planning commission."
Stan Robison: "Meaning nobody."
Malysz dispassionately outlines the varying responsibilities of the commissions.
Coffey blames developer payola for something, and he and Carl argue. Coffey checks himself and we lurch forward.
13. Vicky Denhart - She's "president of Citizens for Accountability" and lives on Country Club Drive. "Sewers, sewers and stormwater" the problem. $60 million spent on sewers ... "we still got problems." In December, $5 million in EDIT. $3 million left ... "give it to them people" to fix their homes (she gestures to the crowd). "You have the power, you have control over the money." She mentions the elderly. "It's time to use it" (money in EDIT and TIF). "There's no reason why New Albany is having the problems" with sewers that it's having. She calls out Gahan and flashes a stack of papers: "Every department is in the red." Says: "I'm not against the police." Addresses the council again: "You guys hold the money -- they're just the mayor and deputy mayor." She almost cries at this point. "This is a moral issue."
Gloom, doom ... populism ... performance art -- gimme a hankie.
14. Cliff Staten - back for more from last meeting (Woodfield Drive), about drainage. "You" (council) need to make the "tough decisions", and "act." Neighbors will be watching.
15. (missed name) - she lives near falling Run Creek, perhaps near apartments. Has photos: "Not just cleaning out the creek." Denounces new development. Mentions Ohio, Mississippi and the ocean as being unable to hold the rainfall. Now there is current to overflow, and children could be washed away. They could be in the river. "No way to fix this with a new drain pipe."
Coffey, Robison and the speaker argue over whether it used to flood. Coffey notes that he was always against development in the vicinity. Robison calls out Carl. This is getting borderline testy.
Why am I here again? Is there cold beer at my house? It would have helped to enforce the time limit tonight, but it would not have suited Coffey's grandstanding notions. Note that after almost two hours, we haven't had a serious discussion yet about the police funding.
16. Greg Burden - Woodfield Drive. Will install a check/shutoff valve and has the money to do it, but not everyone does. 90-year-old woman next door wouldn't be able to handle it. Paid $8,000 for the last clean-up of sewage damage.
17. Officer Miller - captain and commander of second shift. Been there forever. Most demanding shift. Has only 7 of the 10 people he needs right now. "We run and chase our tails 90% of the time," and not much time to cruise the neighborhoods. "If you haven't been the victim of crime in the past few years, you will be soon," because there's too much to do to go out in the neighborhoods and cruise. Goes on a bit, describing his days.
Coming back for city official communications.
12. Sherry Dallman - "I know who owns" the retention lot to buy; there should be no building at 912 Mellwood until drainage is addressed in the area. She's been through this before, and it gets worse. "Keep this lot open." Benedetti chimes in, but I can't hear her.
Price: When you see someone building something, "call us." It "hurt to tell us," because someone told hikm once that "unchecked development would be the ruination of New Albany." He says: "I won't vote for it" (development).
Coffey: "Let your council members know," and call anyone, not just the district representative ...
... because after all, we can't butt in unless we get all the information. The grandstanding tonight is as sickening as I've ever seen it. These people are well-meaning, and Coffey is doing the imperial shuck and jive. He's having "Papa Dan" dialogues with these people.
Coffey: "We depend on what people tell us, but what we've seen tnight and been told it totally different."
Times Coffey has promised a new era of accountability: 4 so far that I remember.
She asks: Who is responsible for these things here:
Coffey: "Well, it's the planning commission."
Stan Robison: "Meaning nobody."
Malysz dispassionately outlines the varying responsibilities of the commissions.
Coffey blames developer payola for something, and he and Carl argue. Coffey checks himself and we lurch forward.
13. Vicky Denhart - She's "president of Citizens for Accountability" and lives on Country Club Drive. "Sewers, sewers and stormwater" the problem. $60 million spent on sewers ... "we still got problems." In December, $5 million in EDIT. $3 million left ... "give it to them people" to fix their homes (she gestures to the crowd). "You have the power, you have control over the money." She mentions the elderly. "It's time to use it" (money in EDIT and TIF). "There's no reason why New Albany is having the problems" with sewers that it's having. She calls out Gahan and flashes a stack of papers: "Every department is in the red." Says: "I'm not against the police." Addresses the council again: "You guys hold the money -- they're just the mayor and deputy mayor." She almost cries at this point. "This is a moral issue."
Gloom, doom ... populism ... performance art -- gimme a hankie.
14. Cliff Staten - back for more from last meeting (Woodfield Drive), about drainage. "You" (council) need to make the "tough decisions", and "act." Neighbors will be watching.
15. (missed name) - she lives near falling Run Creek, perhaps near apartments. Has photos: "Not just cleaning out the creek." Denounces new development. Mentions Ohio, Mississippi and the ocean as being unable to hold the rainfall. Now there is current to overflow, and children could be washed away. They could be in the river. "No way to fix this with a new drain pipe."
Coffey, Robison and the speaker argue over whether it used to flood. Coffey notes that he was always against development in the vicinity. Robison calls out Carl. This is getting borderline testy.
Why am I here again? Is there cold beer at my house? It would have helped to enforce the time limit tonight, but it would not have suited Coffey's grandstanding notions. Note that after almost two hours, we haven't had a serious discussion yet about the police funding.
16. Greg Burden - Woodfield Drive. Will install a check/shutoff valve and has the money to do it, but not everyone does. 90-year-old woman next door wouldn't be able to handle it. Paid $8,000 for the last clean-up of sewage damage.
17. Officer Miller - captain and commander of second shift. Been there forever. Most demanding shift. Has only 7 of the 10 people he needs right now. "We run and chase our tails 90% of the time," and not much time to cruise the neighborhoods. "If you haven't been the victim of crime in the past few years, you will be soon," because there's too much to do to go out in the neighborhoods and cruise. Goes on a bit, describing his days.
Coming back for city official communications.
Part three of "live" blogging: Drainage complaints ongoing, escalating, with matching grandstanding.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC, continued
I'm trying to get names right. Difficult from the cheap seats.
6. Mrs. Pfeiffer - lives on Brentwood (near Castlewood) and has seen boats on her street. She's gone to industrial tile instead of carpet. Needs help on Brentwood, too; much worse since 2006. Haven't been to the stormwater board, but came straight here tonight.
The year 2006 keeps coming up.
Her husband speaks: It is going to get worse. Thinks the foundation of the house will be shot soon.
7. Mark Cassidy - "Six months since I was last up here," and a respite from the water problem. To address EDIT funds for police: Wants to wait and see even if he gets associated with us progressives (he he he). Annexation is never a given. Counsels caution. Wait until the budgets come back.
8. Tanya Boley - lives on Larkwood Drive. Same problems as Castlewood. "Not something we enjoy," including sewage from time to time. They'd love garage water instad of what they get now. Nothing's been done, and no one has come to haul away their junk, where possums now inhabit. Expresses disdain for garbage and wreckage pickup. She is a realtor, with calls from people wanting to sell their houses, but she can't even sell hers. Her tax money is benefiting someone else but not them. Her house value has stayed the same. Kessans not a help to anyone. Rather "nasty." Lost $50,000 in the last five weeks. Her side of the street is universal in terms of damage.
Kessans is taking some hits tonight. Coffey: "When I was a child, I used to trap muskrats" in the area. Why'd "they" let 'em build there, anyway?
She blames "poor decisions."
9. Kent McDaniel - wants to talk about the police. Diane Benedetti helped him when other would not. Asks the crowd if would agree with a 5% LOIT tax increase to pay for police, but Coffey warns him he should speak to the council. He agrees, then ignores him and turns to face the crowd again. Decries bad driving and traffic. Hoped for a public hearing -- "I may be off base" -- to see what's needed.
10. Jameson Bledsoe - main concern is the EDIT money for police. Feels good and safe that we have good police officers. Two bikes stolen, cars illegally entered, diapers stolen. Bullet dents in the hood. Stopped people stealing gutters in his yard. Despite all this, the money going to the police is a "reactionary" policy. Quotes a policeman as saying that putting one away will simply bring another criminal to fill the void. Jail overcrowding, or buy the troubled properties and tear it down or rehabilitate a house for a single family dwelling, and do that, then we won't need officers or code enforcement officers. Must change the physical characteristics" of these properties. The $1 million could clean up the decrepit properties and also solve the drainage issues being addressed tonight.
Coffey: What do you do with the gangs? You can't tell a person he can't buy a house? Gangs?
Coffey, visibly annoyed, goes in for the kill.
Coffey: We've had work sessions all year. NA a focal point of meth. How do you intend to adddress that? Usually I don't like to question speakers, but "I haven't seen you at these meetings."
Bledsoe: Didn't come because he was "unaware" that meetings were open to the public. Wished he could have seen the police presentation. Gangs? In NA, 30% make under $15,000 ... not to generalize, but this is a socio-economic problem, and these people probably contributing to it. Talks about a house in his neighborhood somewhere (?) that was a 6-plex given away by lottery to reputable developers who cold fix it. If it's a $200,000 house, the crack addicts and gangs can't afford to live there. It's a "comprehensive" solution. "I do see where the police are trying to help."
11. (missed the name) - house on a hill, no flooding in the house. Lives on the corner of Mt. Tabor and Klerner, and has been there for 62 years. Gets 11 feet deep behind his house nowadays, this coming since development in the 1970's. Provides a lengthy history of his area. Condemns unrestricted development as the culprit. Advocates retention ponds. Calls out Tony Schueler, who showed a house during Home-a-rama with the basement door locked because there was six feet of water. Has photos. He was annexed 50 years ago, but still doesn't have storm sewers or sidewalks: "Annexation didn't bring us anything except more sprawl." Denounces the amphitheater before sewers and infrastructure!
Note: Time limits not being enforced tonight. Imagine that. It's almost 9:00 p.m., and this is threatening post-meeting happy hour. I'll be back with another chapter shortly (please).
I'm trying to get names right. Difficult from the cheap seats.
6. Mrs. Pfeiffer - lives on Brentwood (near Castlewood) and has seen boats on her street. She's gone to industrial tile instead of carpet. Needs help on Brentwood, too; much worse since 2006. Haven't been to the stormwater board, but came straight here tonight.
The year 2006 keeps coming up.
Her husband speaks: It is going to get worse. Thinks the foundation of the house will be shot soon.
7. Mark Cassidy - "Six months since I was last up here," and a respite from the water problem. To address EDIT funds for police: Wants to wait and see even if he gets associated with us progressives (he he he). Annexation is never a given. Counsels caution. Wait until the budgets come back.
8. Tanya Boley - lives on Larkwood Drive. Same problems as Castlewood. "Not something we enjoy," including sewage from time to time. They'd love garage water instad of what they get now. Nothing's been done, and no one has come to haul away their junk, where possums now inhabit. Expresses disdain for garbage and wreckage pickup. She is a realtor, with calls from people wanting to sell their houses, but she can't even sell hers. Her tax money is benefiting someone else but not them. Her house value has stayed the same. Kessans not a help to anyone. Rather "nasty." Lost $50,000 in the last five weeks. Her side of the street is universal in terms of damage.
Kessans is taking some hits tonight. Coffey: "When I was a child, I used to trap muskrats" in the area. Why'd "they" let 'em build there, anyway?
She blames "poor decisions."
9. Kent McDaniel - wants to talk about the police. Diane Benedetti helped him when other would not. Asks the crowd if would agree with a 5% LOIT tax increase to pay for police, but Coffey warns him he should speak to the council. He agrees, then ignores him and turns to face the crowd again. Decries bad driving and traffic. Hoped for a public hearing -- "I may be off base" -- to see what's needed.
10. Jameson Bledsoe - main concern is the EDIT money for police. Feels good and safe that we have good police officers. Two bikes stolen, cars illegally entered, diapers stolen. Bullet dents in the hood. Stopped people stealing gutters in his yard. Despite all this, the money going to the police is a "reactionary" policy. Quotes a policeman as saying that putting one away will simply bring another criminal to fill the void. Jail overcrowding, or buy the troubled properties and tear it down or rehabilitate a house for a single family dwelling, and do that, then we won't need officers or code enforcement officers. Must change the physical characteristics" of these properties. The $1 million could clean up the decrepit properties and also solve the drainage issues being addressed tonight.
Coffey: What do you do with the gangs? You can't tell a person he can't buy a house? Gangs?
Coffey, visibly annoyed, goes in for the kill.
Coffey: We've had work sessions all year. NA a focal point of meth. How do you intend to adddress that? Usually I don't like to question speakers, but "I haven't seen you at these meetings."
Bledsoe: Didn't come because he was "unaware" that meetings were open to the public. Wished he could have seen the police presentation. Gangs? In NA, 30% make under $15,000 ... not to generalize, but this is a socio-economic problem, and these people probably contributing to it. Talks about a house in his neighborhood somewhere (?) that was a 6-plex given away by lottery to reputable developers who cold fix it. If it's a $200,000 house, the crack addicts and gangs can't afford to live there. It's a "comprehensive" solution. "I do see where the police are trying to help."
11. (missed the name) - house on a hill, no flooding in the house. Lives on the corner of Mt. Tabor and Klerner, and has been there for 62 years. Gets 11 feet deep behind his house nowadays, this coming since development in the 1970's. Provides a lengthy history of his area. Condemns unrestricted development as the culprit. Advocates retention ponds. Calls out Tony Schueler, who showed a house during Home-a-rama with the basement door locked because there was six feet of water. Has photos. He was annexed 50 years ago, but still doesn't have storm sewers or sidewalks: "Annexation didn't bring us anything except more sprawl." Denounces the amphitheater before sewers and infrastructure!
Note: Time limits not being enforced tonight. Imagine that. It's almost 9:00 p.m., and this is threatening post-meeting happy hour. I'll be back with another chapter shortly (please).
We're somewhat "live" with the council ... part two, and members of the public are queuing to tell drainage horror stories.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC
Council kingpin Dan Coffey takes care to prep the public: Limit the time, don't repeat what others say.
I'll try to get the names right; apologies if I don't.
1. Dawn Money - Lives off Green Valley Road on Glen Mill. She's been dealing with water for nine years, and she has pictures. Says they lost pretty much everything last time out, have borrowed $50,000, since flooded four times. They have no more money. They'e stuck. Help is needed. Bad, bad tidings - probably worse overall than last meeting's stories. She provides contact information so council members can do someone else's job and check into it.
Crowd buzzes as they remark on their own experiences. This has become a forum for everyone who has had a drainage, sewage or flooding issue. Coffey mentions that people can be fined for clogging drains and not clearing debris. The crowd giggles. Code enforcement? What a concept.
2. Debbie Easton - lives off Audubon Drive for 30+ years, flooding has been a constant, and she has pictures. Veritable rivers of water for more than three decades. She has tried to talk to Brad Kessans. He "likes to put me off." Tired of it. Too old to clean drains.
Diane Benedetti is taking a major role in this discussion, as she did last meeting. Carl Malysz enters the room.
3. A woman crosses herself off the list. Will be represented by the Castlewood group.
4. David Ayres - lives near the 4H Fairgrounds for 45 years. Things started getting bad in the 1970's. Mentions blockage in the creek, including willow trees with debris hanging on them. Cleaned last time 15 years ago by big machinery, which resolved it for about ten years. Then it grew back. Has a photo of a sizeable log that is hung up. Go in and cut down the trees, and the problem will go away for a while. He takes a matter-of-fact approach, also points to new construction leading to run-off problems nearby. That's the big thing.
Do we have a stormwater board?
5. Castlewood group (5 of them) - bad problems since 2006. Nowhere near a creek, but the street becomes a lake.
Coffey asks if he can keep the photos ... crowd gets a laugh when Mr. Ayres says he has more, including one of a person foating down the flooded creek, presumably in a kayak or something.
Speaker has taken on water 5 times since May, 2009. Has half her drywall on the wall in the basement; has quit trying to repair it. So, she can't use her basement at all. She thinks Jeff Gahan has a proposal to save the day. They've been going to stormwater board and public works meetings.
And become mayor in the process?
She believes that a recently constructed new house took the space of what had been acting as a catch basin. Why was a permit issued for it? Another vacant lot off Mellwood (we heard about this one last time) is the last catch area in the neighborhood. Don't keep adding houses!! They've been told that work is supposed to be done in the fall. Realtors now taking hits for selling houses to people without telling them they get flooded.
Say it ain't so ... say it ain't so.
Stevie of Mayberry says: Did you come complain when that last house got built?
She says no, and Coffey explains that fill-ins like that don't have to come back to him (er, the council) for approval. Coffey now threatens to close the purse strings for boards that don't help him grandstand in situations like these:
"We don't get this information ... we didn't know about these problems." Coffey blames those who come and ask for money, but don't go and clean the ditches and streams.
One of the best grandstands ever: Coffey now demands that the council see to it that these things get done? SINCE WHEN, Dan? Redistricting? Ordinance enforcement? When have you ever said this before now?
Coffey: "This council is going to start holding people accountable."
Direct quote, folks. Coffey begins appeasing the Castlewood group by suggesting that perhaps the city should buy homes.
The speaker agrees: Buy two, demolish them, and reconstruct the environment for catch basins. Her foundation and concrete are now deteriorating. There is psychological damage, and she would like to move if possible. But who would ever buy the house in this case?
Now the citizens want to know: We came to a meeting, and they want to spend money on 15th Street. Why, when no one lives down there?
Umm, well, actually people do live downtown ... this has turned into a whale of a scrum.
Coffey: People should know that we're sensitive to this ... "we ARE going to hold people accountable in this city."
Continued in a few minutes ...
Council kingpin Dan Coffey takes care to prep the public: Limit the time, don't repeat what others say.
I'll try to get the names right; apologies if I don't.
1. Dawn Money - Lives off Green Valley Road on Glen Mill. She's been dealing with water for nine years, and she has pictures. Says they lost pretty much everything last time out, have borrowed $50,000, since flooded four times. They have no more money. They'e stuck. Help is needed. Bad, bad tidings - probably worse overall than last meeting's stories. She provides contact information so council members can do someone else's job and check into it.
Crowd buzzes as they remark on their own experiences. This has become a forum for everyone who has had a drainage, sewage or flooding issue. Coffey mentions that people can be fined for clogging drains and not clearing debris. The crowd giggles. Code enforcement? What a concept.
2. Debbie Easton - lives off Audubon Drive for 30+ years, flooding has been a constant, and she has pictures. Veritable rivers of water for more than three decades. She has tried to talk to Brad Kessans. He "likes to put me off." Tired of it. Too old to clean drains.
Diane Benedetti is taking a major role in this discussion, as she did last meeting. Carl Malysz enters the room.
3. A woman crosses herself off the list. Will be represented by the Castlewood group.
4. David Ayres - lives near the 4H Fairgrounds for 45 years. Things started getting bad in the 1970's. Mentions blockage in the creek, including willow trees with debris hanging on them. Cleaned last time 15 years ago by big machinery, which resolved it for about ten years. Then it grew back. Has a photo of a sizeable log that is hung up. Go in and cut down the trees, and the problem will go away for a while. He takes a matter-of-fact approach, also points to new construction leading to run-off problems nearby. That's the big thing.
Do we have a stormwater board?
5. Castlewood group (5 of them) - bad problems since 2006. Nowhere near a creek, but the street becomes a lake.
Coffey asks if he can keep the photos ... crowd gets a laugh when Mr. Ayres says he has more, including one of a person foating down the flooded creek, presumably in a kayak or something.
Speaker has taken on water 5 times since May, 2009. Has half her drywall on the wall in the basement; has quit trying to repair it. So, she can't use her basement at all. She thinks Jeff Gahan has a proposal to save the day. They've been going to stormwater board and public works meetings.
And become mayor in the process?
She believes that a recently constructed new house took the space of what had been acting as a catch basin. Why was a permit issued for it? Another vacant lot off Mellwood (we heard about this one last time) is the last catch area in the neighborhood. Don't keep adding houses!! They've been told that work is supposed to be done in the fall. Realtors now taking hits for selling houses to people without telling them they get flooded.
Say it ain't so ... say it ain't so.
Stevie of Mayberry says: Did you come complain when that last house got built?
She says no, and Coffey explains that fill-ins like that don't have to come back to him (er, the council) for approval. Coffey now threatens to close the purse strings for boards that don't help him grandstand in situations like these:
"We don't get this information ... we didn't know about these problems." Coffey blames those who come and ask for money, but don't go and clean the ditches and streams.
One of the best grandstands ever: Coffey now demands that the council see to it that these things get done? SINCE WHEN, Dan? Redistricting? Ordinance enforcement? When have you ever said this before now?
Coffey: "This council is going to start holding people accountable."
Direct quote, folks. Coffey begins appeasing the Castlewood group by suggesting that perhaps the city should buy homes.
The speaker agrees: Buy two, demolish them, and reconstruct the environment for catch basins. Her foundation and concrete are now deteriorating. There is psychological damage, and she would like to move if possible. But who would ever buy the house in this case?
Now the citizens want to know: We came to a meeting, and they want to spend money on 15th Street. Why, when no one lives down there?
Umm, well, actually people do live downtown ... this has turned into a whale of a scrum.
Coffey: People should know that we're sensitive to this ... "we ARE going to hold people accountable in this city."
Continued in a few minutes ...
Why "live" blogging from the city council chamber? Because I'm a certified masochist.
THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CIVIL CITY OF NEW ALBANY, INDIANA, WILL HOLD A REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING ...
Yes, they are, and it's both hot and crowded.
AGENDA, CALL TO ORDER, PRAYER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
All accomplished sans feeling.
ROLL CALL
All present.
APPROVAL OR CORRECTION OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES:
New Albany Common Council Public Hearing Minutes July 6, 2009
New Albany Common Council Regular Meeting Minutes July 6, 2009
Approved with a minor correction to the latter.
APPROVAL OF CF-1 FORMS:
Moved and seconded to move up the CF1 form approvals and get these folks out of here. Off they go. Questions about Carl F. Booth and Co., as perhaps they've fled town. Should they get the final year? Are they even paying tax here any longer? Postponed 'til next time.
Now the council chooses the hottest night of the year to begin delving into abatement dates for several applicants, probably to impress the newbies in the crowd.
Attorney Shane Gibson is here. Other ranking city hall officials are not.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC
We'll do that one on the next post, because it's gonna be a doozy tonight. We have police money to consider as well as the 2nd and 3rd readings of the "EDIT for police protection" ordinance. It's standing room only, and I'm back in the media ghetto for the first time in ages. Thanks to Chief Juliot for squeezing me into the fire department seating are. Cheers!
Yes, they are, and it's both hot and crowded.
AGENDA, CALL TO ORDER, PRAYER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
All accomplished sans feeling.
ROLL CALL
All present.
APPROVAL OR CORRECTION OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES:
New Albany Common Council Public Hearing Minutes July 6, 2009
New Albany Common Council Regular Meeting Minutes July 6, 2009
Approved with a minor correction to the latter.
APPROVAL OF CF-1 FORMS:
Moved and seconded to move up the CF1 form approvals and get these folks out of here. Off they go. Questions about Carl F. Booth and Co., as perhaps they've fled town. Should they get the final year? Are they even paying tax here any longer? Postponed 'til next time.
Now the council chooses the hottest night of the year to begin delving into abatement dates for several applicants, probably to impress the newbies in the crowd.
Attorney Shane Gibson is here. Other ranking city hall officials are not.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC
We'll do that one on the next post, because it's gonna be a doozy tonight. We have police money to consider as well as the 2nd and 3rd readings of the "EDIT for police protection" ordinance. It's standing room only, and I'm back in the media ghetto for the first time in ages. Thanks to Chief Juliot for squeezing me into the fire department seating are. Cheers!
Monday, July 06, 2009
Live blogging (4): Mayor's bravura performance ends, so it's on to business, and police funding.
Gahan begins by publicly debating whether or not to pull the resolution. Says he will introduce his request alongside the mayor's (garbage rate fee increase) at the next meeting.
R-09-16 is pulled.
A-09-09 Additional appropriation from EDIT to the police department.
Gahan: Wait for the budget process.
Price: Concerned that we might not be able to make payroll. "Watch the money" right now.
Benedetti: Police manpower a necessity. After the annexation (if it happens), there won't be enough cops on the street.
England: Annexation on January 1.
Messer: What you don't see are the prospective retirements, which could be 20 people within the next few years. Have to begin replsnishing now.
Kevin Zurschmiede: Appreciates frankness all around. Real tough issue for him, but crime's a problem. Credits the police proposal for bringing the city back under control. We have to do it right now.
McLaughlin: Holds copy of the Holland (Michigan) Sentinal. Tells story about the fire department there. The firemen there recommended a pay freeze and cut for the next year. Their departments recognize the need for reductions. Expresses fear that if the council raises rates, he'll get more phone calls.
Benedetti now lectures Price on annexation. Price replies that we have to watch the money, because the annexation bonus might be a while in coming.
Coffey supports Messer (gasp) and says, "Jack's right." Bottom line is that the general fund will never have enough in it, which is why the other monies are used. Points to crime stats in Louisville as evidence that crime is out of control.
Price: "We need to do things like Andy used to do 'em." That's a direct, exact quote.
Gonder: A delay of 18 days until budget hearings won't hurt.
Both England and Benedetti pounce on this, as the budget hearing is for next year.
Benedetti: "Protect the public."
Coffey: "We don't want to address" crime?
Here's the vote. $1 million from EDIT for the police?
No Caesar (changed his vote since the resolution - he explains this to me afterward by saying that the reasoning behind a resolution is very different from the reasoning behind an ordinance)
No Price
No McLaughlin
Aye Benedetti
No Gahan
No Gonder
Aye Messer
Aye Zurschmiede
Aye Coffey
Fails to pass on first reading, 5-4 against. 2nd and 3rd readings next time.
G-09-13 Kemper Project ordinance (2nd and 3rd)
Unanimous both times; passes.
Mayor appeals to the council not to let the 5-4 vote sway them from working together.
R-09-16 is pulled.
A-09-09 Additional appropriation from EDIT to the police department.
Gahan: Wait for the budget process.
Price: Concerned that we might not be able to make payroll. "Watch the money" right now.
Benedetti: Police manpower a necessity. After the annexation (if it happens), there won't be enough cops on the street.
England: Annexation on January 1.
Messer: What you don't see are the prospective retirements, which could be 20 people within the next few years. Have to begin replsnishing now.
Kevin Zurschmiede: Appreciates frankness all around. Real tough issue for him, but crime's a problem. Credits the police proposal for bringing the city back under control. We have to do it right now.
McLaughlin: Holds copy of the Holland (Michigan) Sentinal. Tells story about the fire department there. The firemen there recommended a pay freeze and cut for the next year. Their departments recognize the need for reductions. Expresses fear that if the council raises rates, he'll get more phone calls.
Benedetti now lectures Price on annexation. Price replies that we have to watch the money, because the annexation bonus might be a while in coming.
Coffey supports Messer (gasp) and says, "Jack's right." Bottom line is that the general fund will never have enough in it, which is why the other monies are used. Points to crime stats in Louisville as evidence that crime is out of control.
Price: "We need to do things like Andy used to do 'em." That's a direct, exact quote.
Gonder: A delay of 18 days until budget hearings won't hurt.
Both England and Benedetti pounce on this, as the budget hearing is for next year.
Benedetti: "Protect the public."
Coffey: "We don't want to address" crime?
Here's the vote. $1 million from EDIT for the police?
No Caesar (changed his vote since the resolution - he explains this to me afterward by saying that the reasoning behind a resolution is very different from the reasoning behind an ordinance)
No Price
No McLaughlin
Aye Benedetti
No Gahan
No Gonder
Aye Messer
Aye Zurschmiede
Aye Coffey
Fails to pass on first reading, 5-4 against. 2nd and 3rd readings next time.
G-09-13 Kemper Project ordinance (2nd and 3rd)
Unanimous both times; passes.
Mayor appeals to the council not to let the 5-4 vote sway them from working together.
Live sewage and stormwater blogging, version 3.0: Council members, city officials and the mayor weigh in.
Jeff Gahan thanks the residents for coming in tonight, and shows a few photos to accent his point. He seems to be trying to use the resolution as a means of calling attention to the problem.
Not knocking anyone, but these problems are getting worse. Wants a resolution for $75,000 to help alleviate distress, and knows it's a band-aid, but thinks it may not be enough ... city picked up branches after previous storms ... those were acts of God, too ... may not formally introduce the resolution, but may come back with a full ordinance.
Resolution is read aloud. Gahan is satisfied that the resolution will start a conversation. Be on the lookout for explanations and further action.
Bob Caesar (D-2nd): Agrees. So does Diane Benedetti, and Stan Robison looks like he's in very real pain.
Price: Short term things wouldn't cost much, like a hotline phone number, check things, talk to John Rosenburger (ROSENBARGER, Mr. Preece), and now he's in full grandstand and concedes the council is responsible, fgkfgkey, gfrkegfeygr, feyrgfkey, gfrakuegf ... back up valves ... insurance money ... won't be able to live there.
NOTE: Both Price and Caesar have conceded council responsibility for the situation because of previous rulings on development ... Stan is incredulous.
Gahan: People who make all these payments should not be told that it isn't the sewer system's problem.
Benedetti: Stormwater back in house, and she has been working diligently, and she will take up for the stormwater people ...
Gahan: Be aware of the patterns.
Coffey: Wants to move on to the mayor.
Doug England: "I'm not going to make a campaign speech."
Kudos to the retention pond idea, according to the mayor. Makes a Freudian slip, referring to Ethridge as "Eastridge." Supports the stormwater people.
England: This and previous councils are to blame because they will not risk unpopularity to actually charge for the changes that need to be made in the sewage system. Challenges the council: What's it going to cost? Says we'll now decide what it will take to make the repairs and changes needed. Finger wagging directly at the council. And, if no one want's to live in New Albany, how can development be the problem?
Facts: Dollars, dollars, dollars. Fix it all? We receive less each year than the year before. "Hate to tell you," but it's about money. Can't promise lies and tell stories. Came back from a better job and doesn't know why.
RARE FORM TONIGHT.
Council needs to decide. City has no control over the sewer lines, and disagrees with those who privatized it in the previous administration. Have to stand up and do something. If you want to fix something ... where's the money come from? EDIT's almost dry. Get the sewer and stormwater bills in line. None of you were sitting here when this problem started.
But what I came here for ...
England: Will bring an ordinance to the next city council meeting to raise the garbage collection. We pay $15.18, and charge $13.75. The difference comes from the sewer utility. Wants to raise it $5 to cover inflation. Now goes on another flight to decry the previous administration's privatization. Explains that the street department is too busy collecting trash exempt from the current collection contract to do street work. England wants to put streets and garbage where they belong.
England: Police here tonight. We're fighting for survival, because the federal stimulus money comes into Indianapolis, and then we don't get any of it.
Extols the riverfront during the 4th of July.
England: Speaks for Kemper, which is the ordinance coming up tonight for 2nd and 3rd readings. Wants to make a nice clean factory his legacy. Calls out Jeff Gahan in a humorous aside.
Coffey: Returns to drainage. Any studies done?
England: EMC has the only study. We haven't spent money because the city doesn;t control EMC.
Marinaro: In 2003.
Coffey: No masterplan. Need to see what we're dealing with.
Price: Joins the scrum against EMC's contract by grandstanding to the crowd about EMC's annual $3.5 million annual take.
Wants the garbage done, beginning next meeting. Addresses the citizens, departs.
Not knocking anyone, but these problems are getting worse. Wants a resolution for $75,000 to help alleviate distress, and knows it's a band-aid, but thinks it may not be enough ... city picked up branches after previous storms ... those were acts of God, too ... may not formally introduce the resolution, but may come back with a full ordinance.
Resolution is read aloud. Gahan is satisfied that the resolution will start a conversation. Be on the lookout for explanations and further action.
Bob Caesar (D-2nd): Agrees. So does Diane Benedetti, and Stan Robison looks like he's in very real pain.
Price: Short term things wouldn't cost much, like a hotline phone number, check things, talk to John Rosenburger (ROSENBARGER, Mr. Preece), and now he's in full grandstand and concedes the council is responsible, fgkfgkey, gfrkegfeygr, feyrgfkey, gfrakuegf ... back up valves ... insurance money ... won't be able to live there.
NOTE: Both Price and Caesar have conceded council responsibility for the situation because of previous rulings on development ... Stan is incredulous.
Gahan: People who make all these payments should not be told that it isn't the sewer system's problem.
Benedetti: Stormwater back in house, and she has been working diligently, and she will take up for the stormwater people ...
Gahan: Be aware of the patterns.
Coffey: Wants to move on to the mayor.
Doug England: "I'm not going to make a campaign speech."
Kudos to the retention pond idea, according to the mayor. Makes a Freudian slip, referring to Ethridge as "Eastridge." Supports the stormwater people.
England: This and previous councils are to blame because they will not risk unpopularity to actually charge for the changes that need to be made in the sewage system. Challenges the council: What's it going to cost? Says we'll now decide what it will take to make the repairs and changes needed. Finger wagging directly at the council. And, if no one want's to live in New Albany, how can development be the problem?
Facts: Dollars, dollars, dollars. Fix it all? We receive less each year than the year before. "Hate to tell you," but it's about money. Can't promise lies and tell stories. Came back from a better job and doesn't know why.
RARE FORM TONIGHT.
Council needs to decide. City has no control over the sewer lines, and disagrees with those who privatized it in the previous administration. Have to stand up and do something. If you want to fix something ... where's the money come from? EDIT's almost dry. Get the sewer and stormwater bills in line. None of you were sitting here when this problem started.
But what I came here for ...
England: Will bring an ordinance to the next city council meeting to raise the garbage collection. We pay $15.18, and charge $13.75. The difference comes from the sewer utility. Wants to raise it $5 to cover inflation. Now goes on another flight to decry the previous administration's privatization. Explains that the street department is too busy collecting trash exempt from the current collection contract to do street work. England wants to put streets and garbage where they belong.
England: Police here tonight. We're fighting for survival, because the federal stimulus money comes into Indianapolis, and then we don't get any of it.
Extols the riverfront during the 4th of July.
England: Speaks for Kemper, which is the ordinance coming up tonight for 2nd and 3rd readings. Wants to make a nice clean factory his legacy. Calls out Jeff Gahan in a humorous aside.
Coffey: Returns to drainage. Any studies done?
England: EMC has the only study. We haven't spent money because the city doesn;t control EMC.
Marinaro: In 2003.
Coffey: No masterplan. Need to see what we're dealing with.
Price: Joins the scrum against EMC's contract by grandstanding to the crowd about EMC's annual $3.5 million annual take.
Wants the garbage done, beginning next meeting. Addresses the citizens, departs.
Live blogging continues (2), as sewage yet again bubbles to the service in the 5th and 6th districts.
PUBLIC COMMUNICATIONS TIME, continued.
The sewage/drainage issue in the 5th and 6th districts has appeared out of nowhere in light of the heavy rains in June.
4. Tom (didn't catch the name) (same neighborhood) - has been putting up with the water for a quarter-century, this time it was in his basement, too.
5. Peg - same answer as everyone else (act of God) and is concerned that the lift station was being repaired earlier in the week. Was it working properly? Her mom's basement was ruined. Valuable lost. Previously, her deceased father was told it wouldn't be necessary to use the sewer lock in longer. Looking for compensation owing to it being a closed system. Intends to petition the sewer board. Insurance getting hard to obtain for such. Why are they now in the flood plain (as of July 1).
Steve Price (D-3rd) asks about the back flow valves. Clarifies that to have turned the key would have removed the problem, and that it is attached to each house.
She explains the key apparatus. "Not the kind of thing" to be easily turned. Crowd starts to get out of hand, Coffey reigns 'em in. He's furiously calculating as the testimony unfolds.
6. Marilyn Shumate - Lynnwood Drive. Accustomed to flooding (5 times in three years) but this time water moved her backyard shed and ran it into a tree. Thinks a new unconnected drainage ditch is to blame. The problem is getting worse. She's been told, "there's no money for it."
Coffey: Previous administrations took control of sewers and stormwater from the council ("in their infinite wisdom"), thus fulfilling his need to grandstand. Blames this lack of control.
Marinaro: Spent $200,000 roughly in 2003.
Gahan: Can we read the resolution aloud (it wasn't made public)?
Coffey elaborates: "This mayor" has taken stormwater back "in house."
Confusing exchanges as everyone tries to get a word in simultaneously.
7. Randy Ryall - "Not much to complain," from Woodside Drive. Too busy sandbagging his door to take photos. There's been water since 1984, but now it's heading for his house. Could be a new house diagonally across from him. "Strange" that all these people are having the problem now.
8. Bobby Bauman - Mellwood Drive. Has a vacant lot across the way that is acting as a retention basin. If a house is built there, he suspects that there'll be flooding in his part of the neighborhood. "At times I have lakefront property."
9. Sonya Brummett - Awoke to sewage on the floor. Insurance covered $10,000, but still owes five. Never a problem in 19 years. Plumber told her that a valve cap in her house would send sewage into someone else's house. Understands the water, not the sewage. Had to temporarily send her mother to a nursing home.
Steve Price regales us with descriptions of a tort claim, but correctly points out that unchecked development is the culprit. It's hard to argue with that, really.
Coffey: "There's no one here from EMC, is there?"
Stan Robison (city attorney): Discourses on definitions of negligence ... attorneys will have to confer, but this is "a common sense problem" with the vendor (EMC) ... administration decides whether it's an act of negligence. Used to have meetings to discuss these claims, and will have to do it with these, too.
10. Bob Chism - Hollee Drive. Garage filled with runoff, and no one called him back. Wants a catch-all. How to get someone to come look? Has made previous repairs, but it can't handle the volume of runoff. Would like some help.
11. Paul Etheridge - State worker on Grant Line. Daughter's problem owes to clogging of pipes. City needs a sewer jet. We have city workers, and they need to do the job. No reason for these pipes to be clogged. Will try to do what he can to handle some of these things, but the maintenance workers have to unclog pipes!
12. LeAnna Humphrey - Elmwood. Has already done $30,000 of remodeling, now it's flooded again. Lives in the basement, so no alternative. Health ramifications are scary. He can be gotten to examine houses for healthiness? Commends police and fire departments. Elmwood floods every time.
The sewage/drainage issue in the 5th and 6th districts has appeared out of nowhere in light of the heavy rains in June.
4. Tom (didn't catch the name) (same neighborhood) - has been putting up with the water for a quarter-century, this time it was in his basement, too.
5. Peg - same answer as everyone else (act of God) and is concerned that the lift station was being repaired earlier in the week. Was it working properly? Her mom's basement was ruined. Valuable lost. Previously, her deceased father was told it wouldn't be necessary to use the sewer lock in longer. Looking for compensation owing to it being a closed system. Intends to petition the sewer board. Insurance getting hard to obtain for such. Why are they now in the flood plain (as of July 1).
Steve Price (D-3rd) asks about the back flow valves. Clarifies that to have turned the key would have removed the problem, and that it is attached to each house.
She explains the key apparatus. "Not the kind of thing" to be easily turned. Crowd starts to get out of hand, Coffey reigns 'em in. He's furiously calculating as the testimony unfolds.
6. Marilyn Shumate - Lynnwood Drive. Accustomed to flooding (5 times in three years) but this time water moved her backyard shed and ran it into a tree. Thinks a new unconnected drainage ditch is to blame. The problem is getting worse. She's been told, "there's no money for it."
Coffey: Previous administrations took control of sewers and stormwater from the council ("in their infinite wisdom"), thus fulfilling his need to grandstand. Blames this lack of control.
Marinaro: Spent $200,000 roughly in 2003.
Gahan: Can we read the resolution aloud (it wasn't made public)?
Coffey elaborates: "This mayor" has taken stormwater back "in house."
Confusing exchanges as everyone tries to get a word in simultaneously.
7. Randy Ryall - "Not much to complain," from Woodside Drive. Too busy sandbagging his door to take photos. There's been water since 1984, but now it's heading for his house. Could be a new house diagonally across from him. "Strange" that all these people are having the problem now.
8. Bobby Bauman - Mellwood Drive. Has a vacant lot across the way that is acting as a retention basin. If a house is built there, he suspects that there'll be flooding in his part of the neighborhood. "At times I have lakefront property."
9. Sonya Brummett - Awoke to sewage on the floor. Insurance covered $10,000, but still owes five. Never a problem in 19 years. Plumber told her that a valve cap in her house would send sewage into someone else's house. Understands the water, not the sewage. Had to temporarily send her mother to a nursing home.
Steve Price regales us with descriptions of a tort claim, but correctly points out that unchecked development is the culprit. It's hard to argue with that, really.
Coffey: "There's no one here from EMC, is there?"
Stan Robison (city attorney): Discourses on definitions of negligence ... attorneys will have to confer, but this is "a common sense problem" with the vendor (EMC) ... administration decides whether it's an act of negligence. Used to have meetings to discuss these claims, and will have to do it with these, too.
10. Bob Chism - Hollee Drive. Garage filled with runoff, and no one called him back. Wants a catch-all. How to get someone to come look? Has made previous repairs, but it can't handle the volume of runoff. Would like some help.
11. Paul Etheridge - State worker on Grant Line. Daughter's problem owes to clogging of pipes. City needs a sewer jet. We have city workers, and they need to do the job. No reason for these pipes to be clogged. Will try to do what he can to handle some of these things, but the maintenance workers have to unclog pipes!
12. LeAnna Humphrey - Elmwood. Has already done $30,000 of remodeling, now it's flooded again. Lives in the basement, so no alternative. Health ramifications are scary. He can be gotten to examine houses for healthiness? Commends police and fire departments. Elmwood floods every time.
Live blogging at the city council meeting, for no plausible reason at all.
Full house tonight for three fairly big things: EDIT funds for police, Kemper foods (2 & 3) and something new, a resolution sponsored by Jeff Gahan (D-6th) to use EDIT funds for flooding and storm damage.
Quick run-throughs of the usual preludes. CF-1 forms are advanced to the front. Dan Coffey (D-1st) explains to the gallery of many new faces that these approvals are formalities, although he does not use the term "rubber stamp."
PUBLIC COMMUNICATIONS TIME
People evidently signed up on the wrong sheet, and Gahan makes the point that they're here for his resolution about sewers and drainage. This issue has appeared out of nowhere in light of the heavy rains in June. So, here goes ...
1. Cliff Staton - Had sewage in his basement on June 26th. Lost carpet and clean-up costs. Neighbors has worse. "Not an expert on sewage," but has lived here for a while. Insurance no longer pays for everything, and the response of officials that it is an "act of God" rings false in light of the damage done. Asks for the city to address the problem. Refers to city council as a "deliberative" body. Ooh.
City engineer (Marinaro?) describes the volume of rain, and flat concedes: "It's not designed to handle it, and it never will be." He's in a combative mood.
Pat McLaughlin (D-4th) asks him how old the neighborhood is. A give and take ensues, with the engineer asking why he didn't turn off his cut off, and the public member responding he wasn't at home at the time.
Others pass, citing Staton's testimony as sufficient.
2. Mike Smith - Never used to be a problem Jacobs Creek that runs through this neighborhood. Has talked to engineers about it. Thinks there is clogging.
3. Nathan Garvey - lives on Castlewood, massive damages. Staying with in-laws. Mostly stormwater in his case.
More to come ...
Quick run-throughs of the usual preludes. CF-1 forms are advanced to the front. Dan Coffey (D-1st) explains to the gallery of many new faces that these approvals are formalities, although he does not use the term "rubber stamp."
PUBLIC COMMUNICATIONS TIME
People evidently signed up on the wrong sheet, and Gahan makes the point that they're here for his resolution about sewers and drainage. This issue has appeared out of nowhere in light of the heavy rains in June. So, here goes ...
1. Cliff Staton - Had sewage in his basement on June 26th. Lost carpet and clean-up costs. Neighbors has worse. "Not an expert on sewage," but has lived here for a while. Insurance no longer pays for everything, and the response of officials that it is an "act of God" rings false in light of the damage done. Asks for the city to address the problem. Refers to city council as a "deliberative" body. Ooh.
City engineer (Marinaro?) describes the volume of rain, and flat concedes: "It's not designed to handle it, and it never will be." He's in a combative mood.
Pat McLaughlin (D-4th) asks him how old the neighborhood is. A give and take ensues, with the engineer asking why he didn't turn off his cut off, and the public member responding he wasn't at home at the time.
Others pass, citing Staton's testimony as sufficient.
2. Mike Smith - Never used to be a problem Jacobs Creek that runs through this neighborhood. Has talked to engineers about it. Thinks there is clogging.
3. Nathan Garvey - lives on Castlewood, massive damages. Staying with in-laws. Mostly stormwater in his case.
More to come ...
Thursday, June 18, 2009
Live blogging continues (Part Four) with Coffey in a tailspin, and the gallery giggles.
G-09-13 Ordinance Authorizing the City of New Albany, Indiana to Issue its “Taxable Economic Development Revenue Bonds of 2009 (Kemper Project)” and Approving Other Actions in Respect Thereto
Benedetti 1
No discussion: Unanimous in favor on first reading.
---
Z-09-09 Ordinance Amending the Code of ordinances Of New Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket P-03-09: Sprigler Builders) ... McLaughlin 1
Benedetti begins with feedback from the neighborhood, with respect to drainage. She met with the developer and engineers. Plan has been changed. Coe's Lane a flooding problem. She'll meet with the neighbors on Monday. Scott Woods (Wood) gave her feedback. She's working with the developers to work with the city to change the plan some more. In effect, Benedetti is trying to work with neighbors and developers and make everyone a big, happy family with stormwater drainage.
Fellow behind me says there's an endangered species, a woodpecker, living in that woods. Two of them. Sprigler says, no woods to be cut down. Sprigler says the man has the wrong property.
Conversation ensues about changes. Caesar wants to be extra careful with this and pay attention to what stormwater does. John Kraft, attorney, says that the drainage problem does not emanate from his client's area. An easement is needed from a doctor who won't let them on her property. Benedetti agrees that the doctor won't let "us" visit her. Benedetti's been tromping around the woods and knows. Caesar says: Need to hear from stormwater, obviously.
Coffey rebukes the citizen sitting behind me for speaking out of turn when he was asked to speak earlier but didn't -- but, Coffey will let a council member ask hikm a question, and Coffey will allow it. The citizen asks why he gave the police extra time
SCORE!!!
And Coffey gets annoyed at being shown yet again to be inconsistent. So, Messer, says: I'll ask him, and does. The man then explains what he thinks. Coffey then second guesses him and claims by golly, he gave him the chance, and (egg on face ... again)
Caesar: Who pays for curb cuts?
Kraft: We do.
Laborious discussion ensues. KZ is concerned about drainage, too.
Gonder asks about endangered species implications.
Benedetti says we'll have to do something about stormwater, and then she asks the citizen to address traffic.
He does, and when Coffey fumbles again, we laugh with/at him -- and he glowers.
First reading: Ayes all around except Gonder (serious about endangered species), and most of them qualify "first reading."
---
Z-09-08 An Ordinance for the Vacation of an Existing Utility Easement Pursuant to a Petition file by Joseph J. and Marybeth D. Lewis ... McLaughlin 2&3
Ayes all around on 2, price wanders around the room, and a third reading is taken: Ayes all around.
---
MISCELLANOUS ITEMS:
Benedetti asks about code books. They're being printed. Marcey Wisman notes the letter from Develop New Albany about the Coyle property.
Police powerpoint to all council members? Being investigated.
Lloyd Wimp allowed to speak about his wayward past as a youth, and how he learned to manipulate New Albany's three nightly police officers, keeping them running all night. What the cops are saying is true.
----
TABLED ORDINANCES:
R-09-08 Resolution to Fund a Feasibility Study for the New Albany City Council with Riverboat Funds
Price
G-09-02 Ordinance to Amend City Code Section 51.115 (J) (2) and Section 33.119
Benedetti 1
G-09-13 An Ordinance to Reflect Technical Changes Necessary as a Result of an Agreement With The Town of Georgetown
Zurschmiede 1
Motion to adjourn ... we're out.
Benedetti 1
No discussion: Unanimous in favor on first reading.
---
Z-09-09 Ordinance Amending the Code of ordinances Of New Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket P-03-09: Sprigler Builders) ... McLaughlin 1
Benedetti begins with feedback from the neighborhood, with respect to drainage. She met with the developer and engineers. Plan has been changed. Coe's Lane a flooding problem. She'll meet with the neighbors on Monday. Scott Woods (Wood) gave her feedback. She's working with the developers to work with the city to change the plan some more. In effect, Benedetti is trying to work with neighbors and developers and make everyone a big, happy family with stormwater drainage.
Fellow behind me says there's an endangered species, a woodpecker, living in that woods. Two of them. Sprigler says, no woods to be cut down. Sprigler says the man has the wrong property.
Conversation ensues about changes. Caesar wants to be extra careful with this and pay attention to what stormwater does. John Kraft, attorney, says that the drainage problem does not emanate from his client's area. An easement is needed from a doctor who won't let them on her property. Benedetti agrees that the doctor won't let "us" visit her. Benedetti's been tromping around the woods and knows. Caesar says: Need to hear from stormwater, obviously.
Coffey rebukes the citizen sitting behind me for speaking out of turn when he was asked to speak earlier but didn't -- but, Coffey will let a council member ask hikm a question, and Coffey will allow it. The citizen asks why he gave the police extra time
SCORE!!!
And Coffey gets annoyed at being shown yet again to be inconsistent. So, Messer, says: I'll ask him, and does. The man then explains what he thinks. Coffey then second guesses him and claims by golly, he gave him the chance, and (egg on face ... again)
Caesar: Who pays for curb cuts?
Kraft: We do.
Laborious discussion ensues. KZ is concerned about drainage, too.
Gonder asks about endangered species implications.
Benedetti says we'll have to do something about stormwater, and then she asks the citizen to address traffic.
He does, and when Coffey fumbles again, we laugh with/at him -- and he glowers.
First reading: Ayes all around except Gonder (serious about endangered species), and most of them qualify "first reading."
---
Z-09-08 An Ordinance for the Vacation of an Existing Utility Easement Pursuant to a Petition file by Joseph J. and Marybeth D. Lewis ... McLaughlin 2&3
Ayes all around on 2, price wanders around the room, and a third reading is taken: Ayes all around.
---
MISCELLANOUS ITEMS:
Benedetti asks about code books. They're being printed. Marcey Wisman notes the letter from Develop New Albany about the Coyle property.
Police powerpoint to all council members? Being investigated.
Lloyd Wimp allowed to speak about his wayward past as a youth, and how he learned to manipulate New Albany's three nightly police officers, keeping them running all night. What the cops are saying is true.
----
TABLED ORDINANCES:
R-09-08 Resolution to Fund a Feasibility Study for the New Albany City Council with Riverboat Funds
Price
G-09-02 Ordinance to Amend City Code Section 51.115 (J) (2) and Section 33.119
Benedetti 1
G-09-13 An Ordinance to Reflect Technical Changes Necessary as a Result of an Agreement With The Town of Georgetown
Zurschmiede 1
Motion to adjourn ... we're out.
Live blogging ongoing, Part Three: Ordinances, resolutions and grandstanding.
INTRODUCTION OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS: READING
R-09-13 Resolution Concerning Statement of Benefits for Jones Popcorn Inc. d/b/a Clark’s Snacks by the Common Council of the City of New Albany
Bob Caesar explains what the popcorn market is looking like. This will add jobs to the community. Passes by voice vote.
---
R-09-14 Resolution of the City of New Albany Approving An Amendatory Declaratory Resolution and Amended Plan of the Redevelopment Commission of the City Of New Albany, Indiana, and Approving an Order of The New Albany Area Plan Commission ... Benedetti
Carl Malysz explains the use of the prevailing TIF district's resources to amend the Park East TIF to issue the bond issue to help Kemper buy equipment that will add many jobs. This is one step, then it goes to the redevelopment commission, who makes the final decision. This, and then an ordinance (below)for economic development bonds (1st reading this evening). Several things are being organized in tandem to result in final votes by the council's first July meeting. Banks request this, too. Immediate benefit is 50 jobs, could lead to a larger addition later.
Diane Benedetti says she has talked to the owner, and it's all very good. We have the chance to upend a possible Ohio destination owing to city hall's work. Also, not taking employees from anyone. It's about new hires to fill a Yum Brands contract. It's a loan that will be paid back monthly.
They make refrigerated dough products.
Caesar: Big benefits, little risk.
Gonder: They probably will be high salary jobs. Not minimum wage jobs.
Unanimous in favor.
---
R-09-15 Resolution To Authorize Funding For The Hiring Of 10 New Police Officers
Price introduces and wants a roll call, presumably to enshrine his "no" vote. Benedetti wants information from Chief Crabtree. It's about merit law and union things; Paul Haub says as long as no ranking positions are lost, there'd be more detective moved up sans rank.
KZ unable to attend the workshop. What will this do? Explains where the men will go and be deployed overall.
Call him for details; too many numbers for me.
KZ wants to know exactly which officers he'll see and where when he's out on the street.
Police explain yet again how the plan will work. KZ missed the special meeting, and evidently didn't do any homework since then, unless of course he's on assignment from Dave Matthews.
Paul Haub recaps it again. 15% commits 85% of the crime, and they'll be targeted.
KZ: Will this money address the "minor" problems that my constituents think are major? Don't say "I think," say "it will."
Haub: We need 90 officers, but you can't afford it. So we'll take 75 until annexation. Eloquently speaks to the need NOT to have more VISIBLE officers on the street. Conversely, we need more invisible officers.
Gonder: Take home cars?
Crabtree: Supports them. Saves time.
Benedetti wants to hear stats next year showing that things have improved.
Please come back and see us again, y'all.
Gonder says the presentation last time was scorched earth policy. Cops won't live here because of all the things that are wrong with us, and now dissects statistics. Takes issue with the scaremongering stats: 9,400 crimes per square mile?
Haub: Check out the web site and check the data (didn't hear the web site). Doesn't think it's absurd because of the averaging between rural and urban stats.
Gonder: You put it up to scare us. Gonder says he's not hearing from his constituents about it (Haub is incredulous) but now says that he supports this because he sees where the money is coming from (the sewer subsidies).
Huh? Yes, they need to come out of the sewers, but this isn't on the table tonight.
Messer speaks in favor and explains the problems he sees as a policeman.
Cops now say they leave town because of the crime rate. Haub sees it as fair criticism. We'll die for the city, but we know what happens ... this is regressing fairly quickly. Still no willingness on the part of anyone present to discuss our stance toward the socio-economic conditions that preface crime. None, zilch, nada. t's just grandstanding central.
Pat McLaughlin: Intimidated by cops who don't feel safe. Also intimidated by the financial situation.
Jeff Gahan: We know you need help, but a million dollar appropriation. Needs to take place during the budgetary process. 2009 budget not yet certified. Given that ... 2010 already short. Tough situation to be discussing tonight.
Kevin Zurschmiede: "My concern is moving forward," so what happens next year when we don't have the money ... leaning toward voting for it. Feels strongly that the city needs to feel safer.
McLaughlin: Annexation?
Benedetti: We'll get 'em in 2010.
Caesar: Would Chief Crabtree consider a business plan for the police department?
In short, he's implying that Crabtree doesn;t know what he's doing. How do we pay for that?
Steve Price, having kept his powder safely dry in grandma's cookie jar to bat clean-up, asks Paul to explain yet again what the lessons of New York and Boston are, even though the police have been explaining this for most of the past year.
Haub explains.
Price: Are the funds there? Yes, with a sewer rate hike. Wanna go on record for that? Fine if you do. If the state comes down, they don't care ... I'm just saying, that's fine whatever y'all think, every department ... what if we default?
Not sure where he's going, but no one is.
KZ: Impact-wise, what's the effect, 1-10 scale?
Haub: Clean it up in months, if we have resources. Worked everywhere else in the world, expected to work here. Defends the program, says it includes self-checks and ratings.
KZ understands that if we hired 150 officers, we'd have maximum impact ... but WE'D STILL HAVE UNREGULATED RENTAL PROPERTIES AND AN ABSENCE OF ORDINANCE ENFORCEMENT, KEVIN.
Coffey: #1, always struggling for money, so that's no excuse.
#2, numbers can be adjusted, and I'm not worried about the budget, 'cuz what we're generating as development tonight will pay for it. Says there's plenty of money in EDIT (and more in sewers, but he won't address that).
Vote roll call: Yes: Caesar, Benedetti, Messer, Zurschmiede, Coffey
No: Price, McLaughlin, Gahan, Gonder
Passes 5-4.
R-09-13 Resolution Concerning Statement of Benefits for Jones Popcorn Inc. d/b/a Clark’s Snacks by the Common Council of the City of New Albany
Bob Caesar explains what the popcorn market is looking like. This will add jobs to the community. Passes by voice vote.
---
R-09-14 Resolution of the City of New Albany Approving An Amendatory Declaratory Resolution and Amended Plan of the Redevelopment Commission of the City Of New Albany, Indiana, and Approving an Order of The New Albany Area Plan Commission ... Benedetti
Carl Malysz explains the use of the prevailing TIF district's resources to amend the Park East TIF to issue the bond issue to help Kemper buy equipment that will add many jobs. This is one step, then it goes to the redevelopment commission, who makes the final decision. This, and then an ordinance (below)for economic development bonds (1st reading this evening). Several things are being organized in tandem to result in final votes by the council's first July meeting. Banks request this, too. Immediate benefit is 50 jobs, could lead to a larger addition later.
Diane Benedetti says she has talked to the owner, and it's all very good. We have the chance to upend a possible Ohio destination owing to city hall's work. Also, not taking employees from anyone. It's about new hires to fill a Yum Brands contract. It's a loan that will be paid back monthly.
They make refrigerated dough products.
Caesar: Big benefits, little risk.
Gonder: They probably will be high salary jobs. Not minimum wage jobs.
Unanimous in favor.
---
R-09-15 Resolution To Authorize Funding For The Hiring Of 10 New Police Officers
Price introduces and wants a roll call, presumably to enshrine his "no" vote. Benedetti wants information from Chief Crabtree. It's about merit law and union things; Paul Haub says as long as no ranking positions are lost, there'd be more detective moved up sans rank.
KZ unable to attend the workshop. What will this do? Explains where the men will go and be deployed overall.
Call him for details; too many numbers for me.
KZ wants to know exactly which officers he'll see and where when he's out on the street.
Police explain yet again how the plan will work. KZ missed the special meeting, and evidently didn't do any homework since then, unless of course he's on assignment from Dave Matthews.
Paul Haub recaps it again. 15% commits 85% of the crime, and they'll be targeted.
KZ: Will this money address the "minor" problems that my constituents think are major? Don't say "I think," say "it will."
Haub: We need 90 officers, but you can't afford it. So we'll take 75 until annexation. Eloquently speaks to the need NOT to have more VISIBLE officers on the street. Conversely, we need more invisible officers.
Gonder: Take home cars?
Crabtree: Supports them. Saves time.
Benedetti wants to hear stats next year showing that things have improved.
Please come back and see us again, y'all.
Gonder says the presentation last time was scorched earth policy. Cops won't live here because of all the things that are wrong with us, and now dissects statistics. Takes issue with the scaremongering stats: 9,400 crimes per square mile?
Haub: Check out the web site and check the data (didn't hear the web site). Doesn't think it's absurd because of the averaging between rural and urban stats.
Gonder: You put it up to scare us. Gonder says he's not hearing from his constituents about it (Haub is incredulous) but now says that he supports this because he sees where the money is coming from (the sewer subsidies).
Huh? Yes, they need to come out of the sewers, but this isn't on the table tonight.
Messer speaks in favor and explains the problems he sees as a policeman.
Cops now say they leave town because of the crime rate. Haub sees it as fair criticism. We'll die for the city, but we know what happens ... this is regressing fairly quickly. Still no willingness on the part of anyone present to discuss our stance toward the socio-economic conditions that preface crime. None, zilch, nada. t's just grandstanding central.
Pat McLaughlin: Intimidated by cops who don't feel safe. Also intimidated by the financial situation.
Jeff Gahan: We know you need help, but a million dollar appropriation. Needs to take place during the budgetary process. 2009 budget not yet certified. Given that ... 2010 already short. Tough situation to be discussing tonight.
Kevin Zurschmiede: "My concern is moving forward," so what happens next year when we don't have the money ... leaning toward voting for it. Feels strongly that the city needs to feel safer.
McLaughlin: Annexation?
Benedetti: We'll get 'em in 2010.
Caesar: Would Chief Crabtree consider a business plan for the police department?
In short, he's implying that Crabtree doesn;t know what he's doing. How do we pay for that?
Steve Price, having kept his powder safely dry in grandma's cookie jar to bat clean-up, asks Paul to explain yet again what the lessons of New York and Boston are, even though the police have been explaining this for most of the past year.
Haub explains.
Price: Are the funds there? Yes, with a sewer rate hike. Wanna go on record for that? Fine if you do. If the state comes down, they don't care ... I'm just saying, that's fine whatever y'all think, every department ... what if we default?
Not sure where he's going, but no one is.
KZ: Impact-wise, what's the effect, 1-10 scale?
Haub: Clean it up in months, if we have resources. Worked everywhere else in the world, expected to work here. Defends the program, says it includes self-checks and ratings.
KZ understands that if we hired 150 officers, we'd have maximum impact ... but WE'D STILL HAVE UNREGULATED RENTAL PROPERTIES AND AN ABSENCE OF ORDINANCE ENFORCEMENT, KEVIN.
Coffey: #1, always struggling for money, so that's no excuse.
#2, numbers can be adjusted, and I'm not worried about the budget, 'cuz what we're generating as development tonight will pay for it. Says there's plenty of money in EDIT (and more in sewers, but he won't address that).
Vote roll call: Yes: Caesar, Benedetti, Messer, Zurschmiede, Coffey
No: Price, McLaughlin, Gahan, Gonder
Passes 5-4.
Live blogging on the high wire, Part Two: The campaign begins tonight, and Coffey's dazed.
COMMUNICATIONS – MAYOR
Mayor England agrees with part of Paul Haub's coments, but notes that sometimes speeches get made for the purpose of being elected.
England now comes out strongly for taking EDIT funds out of the sewer subsidies, and calls for an end to these subsidies, whether sewer, sanitation or whatnot. $875,000 subsidies that could be used for the police officers. Turns to Paul and says, "I have to pay some streets, too."
"Lotta people showing a lotta love for New Albany."
Begins selling the town, but the biggest thing happening bad is the men don't feel safe, and he supports them. But ... fund it in a reasonable way. Didn't mean to lecture CM Coffey, note the mayor. Keeping sewer bills low is a "shell game."
Coffey explodes: "EDIT tax is to build the jail, not business." Makes excuses for his craven behavior in subsidizing the sewers. Should go back to the people.
England tells Coffey that Coffey "interrupts too much," and spontaneous applause breaks out.
Most impassioned England performance to date.
Supports the police, but fund it right. Now will talk about something positive. Now explains the things that Maury didn't understand.
"This is not bullshit." Explains who the customers are for the food company that will bring jobs here if the council approves. Didn't want the perception to be that there was subterfuge.
I know this is confused, but this is an amazing reversal of form for the mayor.
APPOINTMENTS
Coffey has resigned from the plan commission because his neighborhood wants him to fight development, so he asks for someone to serve. He's also resigned from Redevelopment, but K Zurschmiede already has been appointed but the Mayor notes that that's a council matter, and Dan gets mighty surly. He decides to wait until Stan Robison is back.
Coffey is wrong. The rules say it's a council matter. Where the hell is Bluegill.
APPROVAL OF CF-1 FORMS:
Rolls through them. Back in a few minutes.
Mayor England agrees with part of Paul Haub's coments, but notes that sometimes speeches get made for the purpose of being elected.
England now comes out strongly for taking EDIT funds out of the sewer subsidies, and calls for an end to these subsidies, whether sewer, sanitation or whatnot. $875,000 subsidies that could be used for the police officers. Turns to Paul and says, "I have to pay some streets, too."
"Lotta people showing a lotta love for New Albany."
Begins selling the town, but the biggest thing happening bad is the men don't feel safe, and he supports them. But ... fund it in a reasonable way. Didn't mean to lecture CM Coffey, note the mayor. Keeping sewer bills low is a "shell game."
Coffey explodes: "EDIT tax is to build the jail, not business." Makes excuses for his craven behavior in subsidizing the sewers. Should go back to the people.
England tells Coffey that Coffey "interrupts too much," and spontaneous applause breaks out.
Most impassioned England performance to date.
Supports the police, but fund it right. Now will talk about something positive. Now explains the things that Maury didn't understand.
"This is not bullshit." Explains who the customers are for the food company that will bring jobs here if the council approves. Didn't want the perception to be that there was subterfuge.
I know this is confused, but this is an amazing reversal of form for the mayor.
APPOINTMENTS
Coffey has resigned from the plan commission because his neighborhood wants him to fight development, so he asks for someone to serve. He's also resigned from Redevelopment, but K Zurschmiede already has been appointed but the Mayor notes that that's a council matter, and Dan gets mighty surly. He decides to wait until Stan Robison is back.
Coffey is wrong. The rules say it's a council matter. Where the hell is Bluegill.
APPROVAL OF CF-1 FORMS:
Rolls through them. Back in a few minutes.
Live blogging from Hell, Part One: We are called to order, disorder and self-aggrandizement.
We have a connection, so tonight there'll be live blogging.
THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CIVIL CITY OF NEW ALBANY, INDIANA, WILL HOLD A REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING IN THE THIRD FLOOR ASSEMBLY ROOM OF THE CITY/COUNTY BUILDING ON THURSDAY 18, JUNE 18, 2009 AT 7:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER ... PRAYER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ... ROLL CALL
Dan Coffey makes sure people know to sign in if they want to speak. All council persons are in attendance tonight.
APPROVAL OR CORRECTION OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES: New Albany Common Council Regular Meeting Minutes June 1, 2009
Approved.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC:
1. Paul Haub - FOP Lodge 99, and a police officer. In favor of R-09-15, which would add ten officers and ancillary civilian personnel. Reiterates importance to community. Perspective offered -- two years ago tonight was when Paul was called to the scene of the Denzinger ambush. He spoke to the officer's widow today. Another phone call was from the wife of a fellow officer with whom Paul doesn't usually get along. She thanked him for telling the story and noted that she can live without pay and perks, but not her husband. Emotional rendering. Tying the families and spouses into the issue of safety, which suffers because of the thinness of the ranks. Reiterates the absence of information previously, allowing this to "get out of hand." Police department has been compromised, and crime statistics are grim. Paul says: "It's our failure."
Editor: That's not entirely the case; too many people take the penny-wise, pound foolish Coffey/Price approach to the social conditions that preface this problem.
Notes that if you're not a victim of violent crime, you'll not be getting very much service. Additional manpower will permit the implementation of proven programs. Council actually will be helping prevent crime by this appropriation. Now pits police funding against paving.
He made it almost all the way through before resorting to either/or.
Casts this vote as epochal, and warns the council that to not approve it is to be complicit in the problem. Less than ideal. Not talking long term. The annexation will correct the funding difficulty -- in essence, indicates officials support for annexation, but NOT WITHOUT extra police to provide extra service. Vote against, and "blood is on your hands too."
Get crime rates down, and all will correct itself. Things will be cleaner, the economy will take off, and the middle class will reappear. The cops will take care of the recividists if given the resources to do it. Has nothing to do with the union, but an investment in "all 37,000" people in the town.
Paul's pull quote: "Until these crime rates are under control, this city is going to fail."
Had 10 minutes to speak, this coming after Coffey's reminder last time that the five minute limit would be enforced regularly. Odd. Given what the police are asking, and we have something like $9 million in economic development money disappearing down the sewer rate subsidy rathole ... never mind.
2. Randy Smith - supports the money for police officers. Laments the history of police-council relations. We are, in effect, asking criminals to come here. Thinks that this is a "Katrina moment" for New Albany, and a rare opportunity to do the right thing.
Also a comment about economic development revenue bonds - they should be extended. Unsure of the exact case referred to.
3. Maury Goldeberg - "Tired of handing over the key of the city" to miscreants and criminals. Lists several unresolved criminal cases, rapes and murders. "Don't gamble with our lives," and "take our city back." Denounces child molesters.
On R-09-14: Difficult to tell what's going on, but ... notes that Exhibit A is missing. Unclear. What is the Redevelopment Commission doing? Also, R-09-13 (Jones Popcorn): What are you doing for this company? Begins talking about another ordinance, also noting that the council isn't explaining itself. Comes back to child molesters again, and says that irrespective of what the council is doing on the ordinances that he doesn't know about ...
... sorry, I'm lost. The 3rd district electoral slate in 2011 just became crystal clear to me. Meanwhile, Coffey says that it's okay to contradict himself tonight on comment length because they're passionate issues. These words could come back to haunt him, like most things he says.
4. Officer Higdon (I think): Describes the situation on the ground for the police night shift. "If the funds are there, it's an investment in the city." Could get the city going in the right direction. It would scare you to know what happens at night. Many of his officers are here at the meeting. "Horrible" if it doesn't pass, but no one will quick. Hard pressed to be comfortable if a family member worked at night. "We protect the best we can," but could do better ... "invest in us, and invest in the city."
Coffey asks for people wishing to speak about Coe's Lane project. None volunteer.
COMMUNICATIONS – CITY OFFICIALS:
Marcey Wisman makes clear that some information was received late for the agenda attachments.
Price wants to know if additional appropriations require a public hearing. Apparently for 15, not 14. Stan Robison is not here.
Coffey expresses confusion about resolution vs. ordinance forms of "we will support" something, because resolutions don't need to be advertised. Has to come back in ordinance form. No one understands any of this, least of all Price. Gonder tries to clarify. Resolutions indicate support only.
Back shortly.
THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CIVIL CITY OF NEW ALBANY, INDIANA, WILL HOLD A REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING IN THE THIRD FLOOR ASSEMBLY ROOM OF THE CITY/COUNTY BUILDING ON THURSDAY 18, JUNE 18, 2009 AT 7:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER ... PRAYER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ... ROLL CALL
Dan Coffey makes sure people know to sign in if they want to speak. All council persons are in attendance tonight.
APPROVAL OR CORRECTION OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES: New Albany Common Council Regular Meeting Minutes June 1, 2009
Approved.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC:
1. Paul Haub - FOP Lodge 99, and a police officer. In favor of R-09-15, which would add ten officers and ancillary civilian personnel. Reiterates importance to community. Perspective offered -- two years ago tonight was when Paul was called to the scene of the Denzinger ambush. He spoke to the officer's widow today. Another phone call was from the wife of a fellow officer with whom Paul doesn't usually get along. She thanked him for telling the story and noted that she can live without pay and perks, but not her husband. Emotional rendering. Tying the families and spouses into the issue of safety, which suffers because of the thinness of the ranks. Reiterates the absence of information previously, allowing this to "get out of hand." Police department has been compromised, and crime statistics are grim. Paul says: "It's our failure."
Editor: That's not entirely the case; too many people take the penny-wise, pound foolish Coffey/Price approach to the social conditions that preface this problem.
Notes that if you're not a victim of violent crime, you'll not be getting very much service. Additional manpower will permit the implementation of proven programs. Council actually will be helping prevent crime by this appropriation. Now pits police funding against paving.
He made it almost all the way through before resorting to either/or.
Casts this vote as epochal, and warns the council that to not approve it is to be complicit in the problem. Less than ideal. Not talking long term. The annexation will correct the funding difficulty -- in essence, indicates officials support for annexation, but NOT WITHOUT extra police to provide extra service. Vote against, and "blood is on your hands too."
Get crime rates down, and all will correct itself. Things will be cleaner, the economy will take off, and the middle class will reappear. The cops will take care of the recividists if given the resources to do it. Has nothing to do with the union, but an investment in "all 37,000" people in the town.
Paul's pull quote: "Until these crime rates are under control, this city is going to fail."
Had 10 minutes to speak, this coming after Coffey's reminder last time that the five minute limit would be enforced regularly. Odd. Given what the police are asking, and we have something like $9 million in economic development money disappearing down the sewer rate subsidy rathole ... never mind.
2. Randy Smith - supports the money for police officers. Laments the history of police-council relations. We are, in effect, asking criminals to come here. Thinks that this is a "Katrina moment" for New Albany, and a rare opportunity to do the right thing.
Also a comment about economic development revenue bonds - they should be extended. Unsure of the exact case referred to.
3. Maury Goldeberg - "Tired of handing over the key of the city" to miscreants and criminals. Lists several unresolved criminal cases, rapes and murders. "Don't gamble with our lives," and "take our city back." Denounces child molesters.
On R-09-14: Difficult to tell what's going on, but ... notes that Exhibit A is missing. Unclear. What is the Redevelopment Commission doing? Also, R-09-13 (Jones Popcorn): What are you doing for this company? Begins talking about another ordinance, also noting that the council isn't explaining itself. Comes back to child molesters again, and says that irrespective of what the council is doing on the ordinances that he doesn't know about ...
... sorry, I'm lost. The 3rd district electoral slate in 2011 just became crystal clear to me. Meanwhile, Coffey says that it's okay to contradict himself tonight on comment length because they're passionate issues. These words could come back to haunt him, like most things he says.
4. Officer Higdon (I think): Describes the situation on the ground for the police night shift. "If the funds are there, it's an investment in the city." Could get the city going in the right direction. It would scare you to know what happens at night. Many of his officers are here at the meeting. "Horrible" if it doesn't pass, but no one will quick. Hard pressed to be comfortable if a family member worked at night. "We protect the best we can," but could do better ... "invest in us, and invest in the city."
Coffey asks for people wishing to speak about Coe's Lane project. None volunteer.
COMMUNICATIONS – CITY OFFICIALS:
Marcey Wisman makes clear that some information was received late for the agenda attachments.
Price wants to know if additional appropriations require a public hearing. Apparently for 15, not 14. Stan Robison is not here.
Coffey expresses confusion about resolution vs. ordinance forms of "we will support" something, because resolutions don't need to be advertised. Has to come back in ordinance form. No one understands any of this, least of all Price. Gonder tries to clarify. Resolutions indicate support only.
Back shortly.
Wednesday, June 10, 2009
Part Two of semi-live blogging: City council work session, Georgetown and sewage rates.
The senior editor is relaying the Bookseller's live report from the city council chamber and tonight's work session about Georgetown, New Albany and the sewer system that binds.
----
NA Sewer board has no idea what the G-town sewer capital sinking fund applies to user rates. $6 million? $18 million?
"We are not the reason their rate is rising toward $100."
That was Ed Wilkinson, who recently joined the board for the sewers.
Sulfides and ammonia are very high (I'll resist the diet jokes).
For whatever reason, Georgetown's effluent contains VERY high toxics that must be removed. Why? I dunno.
Mr. Gahan asks: This increase is about $15 per household? Yes, says Mr. Wilkinson.
Ah-hah. Flat system, slow flow, the longer it's in the system, the more decay, the more toxic chemistry. That explains it. Not the ingestion of unusual substances, but the "long pipe" decomposition.
I'm trying not to inject my opinions here, but just report undisputed facts.
In NA, there are multiple pumping stations. The Georgetown system, primarily, is gravity-fed. The slowness adds to the decomposition and corrosion. Nonetheless, it all flows downhill.
NOW
The county commission defers to the Georgetown town council member, Mr. Stewart.
G-town rates are "set" by Umbaugh, as an independent accounting firm.
Base rate is $27.65
plus $9 unit rate, based on 5,000 gallons of effluent per month.
OK, I'm already lost. Georgetown, we're told, has an old, rundown system. Operating their system is costly. $89,000 plus per month to operate. Added to that is the New Albany charge for actually treating the system.
So, 90,000 dollars divided by 1,200 people = $10 a month, plus, per ratepayer/householder.
$1.5 retirement bond on old sewer system...
plus bond anticipation notes on future system
Arrgh!
I'm sorry, my mind is much more lineal than I thought. Maybe the council can understand this...I can't. It's too disjointed and all over the map for me to follow.
Mr. Stewart says fair rate is significantly cheaper than even what we pay in N.A. He says it should be $1.09 per unit.
LAWSUIT THREAT. That's the first one tonight. Stewart threatens lawsuit that will hold off any payment for years.
190,000 gallons a day sent from Georgetown. Of 8 million gallons per day for the whole system.
Stewart: We treat our sewage not because we're required to by contract, but because we're nice guys. New Albany asked us to do it, and we did it. We don't have to do so, no matter how corrosive it is.
I'm honestly lost. I'm trying to "live-e-mail" this thing, but I'm hearing gobbledygook.
"Horrible" penalties, horrible rates. Assertion by Stewart that these rates are illegal. If we signed it (old town council), it was illegal. YOU CAN'T ENFORCE IT.
This parrots the legal position of the town's lawyer, who clearly intends to challenge it as "illegal" to treat Georgetown as a retail account.
Sorry...the last ten minutes have been a blur. I checked my e-mail, read the NA Confidential blog comments.
Now, Mr. Price is up for his first at-bat.
"It's steel, politics." Six days before the election, Georgetown agreed to this contract.
Per Stewart: Original contract: $1.9 million a year for 500,000 gallons a day flow.
Georgetown then realized they could do it themselves for less money and asked out of the 25-year contract.
To do so, they were required to pay $800,000 to New Albany, which they did, to unwind a 25-year commitment. In addition, penalties and rate increases would be applied if Georgetown didn't get "off" the system.
Georgetown now says the county should pay to move the plant to the west of town instead of building it at G-town's "Edwardsville" site.
The Edwardsville site is dead, died, and gone. The annexation won't happen. This is me, Randy, saying this. That dog won't hunt.
The west o' town site is the only site. As we listen, there is no plant designed or being built.
Stewart: Give us more time!
Mr. Stewart, as before, is begging, threatening, and poor-mouthing. Claims if anyone sues Georgetown, they have a four-year get-out-of-free card in the contract.
Diane B: DO you actually have a site?
Stewart: No. We have three sites we've talked about that we might offer on, as of May, 2009.
OMG moment!
Stewart: Georgetown doesn't have $350,000 to buy a piece of land. Unless the county pays for it, we can't buy land to build a sewer plant.
Mr. Z: What assurances can you give New Albany?
Stewart: Everything legally possible?
Mr. Z is taking the G-town attorney to the woodshed right now.
----
NA Sewer board has no idea what the G-town sewer capital sinking fund applies to user rates. $6 million? $18 million?
"We are not the reason their rate is rising toward $100."
That was Ed Wilkinson, who recently joined the board for the sewers.
Sulfides and ammonia are very high (I'll resist the diet jokes).
For whatever reason, Georgetown's effluent contains VERY high toxics that must be removed. Why? I dunno.
Mr. Gahan asks: This increase is about $15 per household? Yes, says Mr. Wilkinson.
Ah-hah. Flat system, slow flow, the longer it's in the system, the more decay, the more toxic chemistry. That explains it. Not the ingestion of unusual substances, but the "long pipe" decomposition.
I'm trying not to inject my opinions here, but just report undisputed facts.
In NA, there are multiple pumping stations. The Georgetown system, primarily, is gravity-fed. The slowness adds to the decomposition and corrosion. Nonetheless, it all flows downhill.
NOW
The county commission defers to the Georgetown town council member, Mr. Stewart.
G-town rates are "set" by Umbaugh, as an independent accounting firm.
Base rate is $27.65
plus $9 unit rate, based on 5,000 gallons of effluent per month.
OK, I'm already lost. Georgetown, we're told, has an old, rundown system. Operating their system is costly. $89,000 plus per month to operate. Added to that is the New Albany charge for actually treating the system.
So, 90,000 dollars divided by 1,200 people = $10 a month, plus, per ratepayer/householder.
$1.5 retirement bond on old sewer system...
plus bond anticipation notes on future system
Arrgh!
I'm sorry, my mind is much more lineal than I thought. Maybe the council can understand this...I can't. It's too disjointed and all over the map for me to follow.
Mr. Stewart says fair rate is significantly cheaper than even what we pay in N.A. He says it should be $1.09 per unit.
LAWSUIT THREAT. That's the first one tonight. Stewart threatens lawsuit that will hold off any payment for years.
190,000 gallons a day sent from Georgetown. Of 8 million gallons per day for the whole system.
Stewart: We treat our sewage not because we're required to by contract, but because we're nice guys. New Albany asked us to do it, and we did it. We don't have to do so, no matter how corrosive it is.
I'm honestly lost. I'm trying to "live-e-mail" this thing, but I'm hearing gobbledygook.
"Horrible" penalties, horrible rates. Assertion by Stewart that these rates are illegal. If we signed it (old town council), it was illegal. YOU CAN'T ENFORCE IT.
This parrots the legal position of the town's lawyer, who clearly intends to challenge it as "illegal" to treat Georgetown as a retail account.
Sorry...the last ten minutes have been a blur. I checked my e-mail, read the NA Confidential blog comments.
Now, Mr. Price is up for his first at-bat.
"It's steel, politics." Six days before the election, Georgetown agreed to this contract.
Per Stewart: Original contract: $1.9 million a year for 500,000 gallons a day flow.
Georgetown then realized they could do it themselves for less money and asked out of the 25-year contract.
To do so, they were required to pay $800,000 to New Albany, which they did, to unwind a 25-year commitment. In addition, penalties and rate increases would be applied if Georgetown didn't get "off" the system.
Georgetown now says the county should pay to move the plant to the west of town instead of building it at G-town's "Edwardsville" site.
The Edwardsville site is dead, died, and gone. The annexation won't happen. This is me, Randy, saying this. That dog won't hunt.
The west o' town site is the only site. As we listen, there is no plant designed or being built.
Stewart: Give us more time!
Mr. Stewart, as before, is begging, threatening, and poor-mouthing. Claims if anyone sues Georgetown, they have a four-year get-out-of-free card in the contract.
Diane B: DO you actually have a site?
Stewart: No. We have three sites we've talked about that we might offer on, as of May, 2009.
OMG moment!
Stewart: Georgetown doesn't have $350,000 to buy a piece of land. Unless the county pays for it, we can't buy land to build a sewer plant.
Mr. Z: What assurances can you give New Albany?
Stewart: Everything legally possible?
Mr. Z is taking the G-town attorney to the woodshed right now.
Semi-live blogging: City council work session, Georgetown and sewage rates.
The senior editor is relaying the Bookseller's live report from the city council chamber and tonight's work session about Georgetown, New Albany and the sewer system that binds.
---
This is The Bookseller live-e-mailing what IS a work session (NO VOTE, just talk.)
We have no visual access to the clock...Mr. Coffey is reticent to raise the movie screen unless he's blamed for ripping the silver.
Ron Carroll, recently from the Cardiac Unit, Ed Wilkinson, Sewer Board member, and attorney Lee Buchanan, who represents the Sewer Board, begin the presentation.
First discussion is about the ordinance itself.
A 2005 agreement to provide service to Georgetown for 20 years was renegotiated. G'town elected to withdraw and negotiate a new agreement in 2006 (Amendment 1) and build their own sewage treatment plant. This 30-month agreement (ended Feb. 28, 2009), subsequently extended to date June 1, 2009.
By contract, G-town sewage will continue to be treated. However, they agreed to pay a new "retail" rate instead of the prior "wholesale" rate. Those words are terms of art, not legal or commercial terms.
Georgetown does not pay the fringe 150% rate, but a lesser rate based on their own capital expenditures. Even after this June 1 bumper, the rate is lower than, say, the folks in Gobbler's Knob pay...I'm told it's called "Cobbler's Crossing."
Mr. Buchanan assertively rebuffs the council's (Mr. Zurschmiede) attempt to discuss the "penalty" of $450,000. That contract penalty is, by Mr. Buchanan's reckoning, not subject to council approval, denial, or even comment. That "penalty" for failing to remove the sewage from the system, is not subject to council oversight.
Mr. Coffey asks: How is this related to the need for "sewer credits." We invite more knowledgeable people
"I don't want the people of Georgetown to be caught up...I don't want them to pay. It has been said that we're subsidizing them...Well, I don't think that's right. They're treating their own (?)" MR. COFFEY.
Georgetown, by consensus, contributes 2% of the system's sewerage.
JACK MESSER: Is this treated sewage? Buchanan: No, it's not.
That refutes Mr. Coffey's dictum, but the G-town folks say it is (partially) treated.
$6.74 per 1,000 cubic gallons is the new rate.
Mr. Z says: It's not as simple as the rate. There are lots of complications. If it were simple, it would be simple to calculate the costs.
Mr. McLaughlin: Is the type of "byproduct" from G-town "more offensive?" Buchanan says G-town stuff has higher sulfur (oxide) content is higher, more corrosive.
Remember, folks, that the "other" side will be speaking next.
Ed Wilkinson (newest sewer board member) stands to discuss the chart he handed out showing the first four months of this year, showing flow rates and basic math regarding fees, rates, charges...It seems we're drifting toward rates that are unreasonable for anybody. We want to establish a base line for flow rates, anomalies, etc.
On the basis of the arithmetic...I took the flow rate, actual, the total bill each month, divided it by the $3.11 per 1,000 gallons and assumed either 1.200 or 1,150 customers in G-town.
We (New Albany Sewer Board) charge G-town $14.12 per household in January, 2009. Georgetown charged its residents $74.20...for each "unit" of 1,000 gallons.
New Albany charges actual flow rate (under 5,000 units). G-town estimates 5,000
Wilkinson says NA charges $27 to $30 per month per household under the new rate. G-town rate includes a sinking fund for past and future capital spending.
Georgetown adds up to $47 over and above what New Albany charges.
---
This is The Bookseller live-e-mailing what IS a work session (NO VOTE, just talk.)
We have no visual access to the clock...Mr. Coffey is reticent to raise the movie screen unless he's blamed for ripping the silver.
Ron Carroll, recently from the Cardiac Unit, Ed Wilkinson, Sewer Board member, and attorney Lee Buchanan, who represents the Sewer Board, begin the presentation.
First discussion is about the ordinance itself.
A 2005 agreement to provide service to Georgetown for 20 years was renegotiated. G'town elected to withdraw and negotiate a new agreement in 2006 (Amendment 1) and build their own sewage treatment plant. This 30-month agreement (ended Feb. 28, 2009), subsequently extended to date June 1, 2009.
By contract, G-town sewage will continue to be treated. However, they agreed to pay a new "retail" rate instead of the prior "wholesale" rate. Those words are terms of art, not legal or commercial terms.
Georgetown does not pay the fringe 150% rate, but a lesser rate based on their own capital expenditures. Even after this June 1 bumper, the rate is lower than, say, the folks in Gobbler's Knob pay...I'm told it's called "Cobbler's Crossing."
Mr. Buchanan assertively rebuffs the council's (Mr. Zurschmiede) attempt to discuss the "penalty" of $450,000. That contract penalty is, by Mr. Buchanan's reckoning, not subject to council approval, denial, or even comment. That "penalty" for failing to remove the sewage from the system, is not subject to council oversight.
Mr. Coffey asks: How is this related to the need for "sewer credits." We invite more knowledgeable people
"I don't want the people of Georgetown to be caught up...I don't want them to pay. It has been said that we're subsidizing them...Well, I don't think that's right. They're treating their own (?)" MR. COFFEY.
Georgetown, by consensus, contributes 2% of the system's sewerage.
JACK MESSER: Is this treated sewage? Buchanan: No, it's not.
That refutes Mr. Coffey's dictum, but the G-town folks say it is (partially) treated.
$6.74 per 1,000 cubic gallons is the new rate.
Mr. Z says: It's not as simple as the rate. There are lots of complications. If it were simple, it would be simple to calculate the costs.
Mr. McLaughlin: Is the type of "byproduct" from G-town "more offensive?" Buchanan says G-town stuff has higher sulfur (oxide) content is higher, more corrosive.
Remember, folks, that the "other" side will be speaking next.
Ed Wilkinson (newest sewer board member) stands to discuss the chart he handed out showing the first four months of this year, showing flow rates and basic math regarding fees, rates, charges...It seems we're drifting toward rates that are unreasonable for anybody. We want to establish a base line for flow rates, anomalies, etc.
On the basis of the arithmetic...I took the flow rate, actual, the total bill each month, divided it by the $3.11 per 1,000 gallons and assumed either 1.200 or 1,150 customers in G-town.
We (New Albany Sewer Board) charge G-town $14.12 per household in January, 2009. Georgetown charged its residents $74.20...for each "unit" of 1,000 gallons.
New Albany charges actual flow rate (under 5,000 units). G-town estimates 5,000
Wilkinson says NA charges $27 to $30 per month per household under the new rate. G-town rate includes a sinking fund for past and future capital spending.
Georgetown adds up to $47 over and above what New Albany charges.
Monday, June 01, 2009
More purgatory in real time as the council meeting goes forward. Who are these imposters?
Ordinances are now being introduced.
R-09-12 Resolution to Investigate Feasibility for Motorcycles, Cross-Over and Alternative Vehicles for the Police Department.
Police Chief Crabtree: Certain of the cross-over and alternative vehicles cost more than the generaly sanctioned (and grant supported) Crown Vic. Motorcycles only slightly less. The cost savings get cancelled out by the expense of equipping vehicles for police work. The chief has researched for a onth, and thinks he needs more time. So far, he's surprised to see the lack of difference.
Price: Accidents on motorcycles?
Crabtree: Depends on training. Louisville experimented with them, then withdrew them. Motorcycles are great "public relations tools." In essence, thinks there are possibilities and needs more time to investigate, especially motorcycles.
Resolution amended to allow until more time, until December, and then approved.
Z-09-08 An Ordinance for the Vacation of an Existing Utility Easement ... etc.
Mr. Boofter is here. It's an alley off Knobview. Subdivision from 1926, house built in the early 1950's. I really can't hear a word he's saying beyond urging it to be vacated. Apparently the people have bene caring for the easement for "quite some time." 1st reading approved unanimously
A-09-08 Additional Appropriation Ordinance for the EDIT Fund
A motion is taken to rearrange the order of the agenda, and Price reads it. 2nd the 3rd readings. Both readings approved unanimously. Apparently this is the vaunted paving ordinance.
G-09-11 An Ordinance Amending Section 150.103 of the New Albany City Code
No explanation of what it is, and taken out of turn. 2nd and 3rd readings approved unanimously.
Coffey is pushing through with breakneck speed. Is American Idol on television evening?
G-09-12 An Ordinance Amending City Ordinance Regarding Cleanliness of Premises Sec. 150.101
Benedetti introduces in Caesar's absence. Roll call for the 2nd and 3rd readings proceeds with unanimity.
Gads ... a forty minute meeting?
Lloyd passes on speaking. Meeting over.
R-09-12 Resolution to Investigate Feasibility for Motorcycles, Cross-Over and Alternative Vehicles for the Police Department.
Police Chief Crabtree: Certain of the cross-over and alternative vehicles cost more than the generaly sanctioned (and grant supported) Crown Vic. Motorcycles only slightly less. The cost savings get cancelled out by the expense of equipping vehicles for police work. The chief has researched for a onth, and thinks he needs more time. So far, he's surprised to see the lack of difference.
Price: Accidents on motorcycles?
Crabtree: Depends on training. Louisville experimented with them, then withdrew them. Motorcycles are great "public relations tools." In essence, thinks there are possibilities and needs more time to investigate, especially motorcycles.
Resolution amended to allow until more time, until December, and then approved.
Z-09-08 An Ordinance for the Vacation of an Existing Utility Easement ... etc.
Mr. Boofter is here. It's an alley off Knobview. Subdivision from 1926, house built in the early 1950's. I really can't hear a word he's saying beyond urging it to be vacated. Apparently the people have bene caring for the easement for "quite some time." 1st reading approved unanimously
A-09-08 Additional Appropriation Ordinance for the EDIT Fund
A motion is taken to rearrange the order of the agenda, and Price reads it. 2nd the 3rd readings. Both readings approved unanimously. Apparently this is the vaunted paving ordinance.
G-09-11 An Ordinance Amending Section 150.103 of the New Albany City Code
No explanation of what it is, and taken out of turn. 2nd and 3rd readings approved unanimously.
Coffey is pushing through with breakneck speed. Is American Idol on television evening?
G-09-12 An Ordinance Amending City Ordinance Regarding Cleanliness of Premises Sec. 150.101
Benedetti introduces in Caesar's absence. Roll call for the 2nd and 3rd readings proceeds with unanimity.
Gads ... a forty minute meeting?
Lloyd passes on speaking. Meeting over.
Purgatory marches on: "Live" blogging from the moribund council chambers ... Part One.
Council president Dan Coffey has preempted tonight's Pledge Allegiance, and instead, the council has donned gloves and are singing:
Your Butt Is Mine
Gonna Tell You Right
Just Show Your Face
In Broad Daylight
I'm Telling You
On How I Feel
Gonna Hurt Your Mind
Don't Shoot To Kill
Come On
Oh my, the Moon Walk's coming ...
Minutes of last two meetings approved.
CF-1 forms moved forward. No Carlisle, No Fire King, no S & H Properties ... ut Stephen Tilton is here, so the last of four is approved.
Public comments are prefaced with Coffey's unexpected return to the five minute limit. He also will allow no name-calling, at least unless he's doing it.
PUB-COM
Shirley Baird: Wants to discuss paving. Wishes everyone would work together and get it done. Council and mayor squabbling, but why not do what we can with $2 million, then add the bond issue later? We elected the officials to work together, so "please do."
PUB-OFF-COM
Attorney Shane Gibson presents a list of the city's desired paving program, saying that it is offered "because you asked for it." Not "carved i stone," but gives an indication of planned focus.
D. Benedetti: When is it advertised?
Gibson: Next and following week.
Benedetti: Wants to see reused milling as a line item to see how much it is worth.
Gibson: Milling and paving, price per ton.
Benedetti: I'm talking about reused milling.
M. Thompson: They take it back and put used material back in the mix. It's "included in their bids."
K. Zurschmiede: Thanks for giving me what I was looking for.
S. Price: Uses a special case of utility work to ask what happens when something is repaved and then dug back up for work?
Gibson: Coordinating is tough. We try to avoid paving and then have it destroyed a short time later by utility work.
Coffey: Contractors have called me. They are interested.
Shane: Already expained this, and adds that he doesn't know how it's handled.
Coffey: Do we have a web site? Need to do it there, too.
Gibson: Explains procedure. Lowest and best bidder. Level 6 and down.
(Coffey the tech savvy wonk ... not ... but he's bad, he's bad ... don that glove)
J. Gonder: Asks about little area between Grant Line and Charlestown by Little Tiger.
Everyone seems to feel that there's a TIF for it, and that sidewalks are supposed to be done first. If there's another funding source, it will be used, not this one.
The Highwayman comments: Council is "micromanaging without a microscope."
Coffey gets unctuous in praising the decision to share information. Gibson responds. The orchestra swells.
I want to teach the world to sing,
in perfect harmony
No mayoral communications ... ordinances.
(see part two)
Your Butt Is Mine
Gonna Tell You Right
Just Show Your Face
In Broad Daylight
I'm Telling You
On How I Feel
Gonna Hurt Your Mind
Don't Shoot To Kill
Come On
Oh my, the Moon Walk's coming ...
Minutes of last two meetings approved.
CF-1 forms moved forward. No Carlisle, No Fire King, no S & H Properties ... ut Stephen Tilton is here, so the last of four is approved.
Public comments are prefaced with Coffey's unexpected return to the five minute limit. He also will allow no name-calling, at least unless he's doing it.
PUB-COM
Shirley Baird: Wants to discuss paving. Wishes everyone would work together and get it done. Council and mayor squabbling, but why not do what we can with $2 million, then add the bond issue later? We elected the officials to work together, so "please do."
PUB-OFF-COM
Attorney Shane Gibson presents a list of the city's desired paving program, saying that it is offered "because you asked for it." Not "carved i stone," but gives an indication of planned focus.
D. Benedetti: When is it advertised?
Gibson: Next and following week.
Benedetti: Wants to see reused milling as a line item to see how much it is worth.
Gibson: Milling and paving, price per ton.
Benedetti: I'm talking about reused milling.
M. Thompson: They take it back and put used material back in the mix. It's "included in their bids."
K. Zurschmiede: Thanks for giving me what I was looking for.
S. Price: Uses a special case of utility work to ask what happens when something is repaved and then dug back up for work?
Gibson: Coordinating is tough. We try to avoid paving and then have it destroyed a short time later by utility work.
Coffey: Contractors have called me. They are interested.
Shane: Already expained this, and adds that he doesn't know how it's handled.
Coffey: Do we have a web site? Need to do it there, too.
Gibson: Explains procedure. Lowest and best bidder. Level 6 and down.
(Coffey the tech savvy wonk ... not ... but he's bad, he's bad ... don that glove)
J. Gonder: Asks about little area between Grant Line and Charlestown by Little Tiger.
Everyone seems to feel that there's a TIF for it, and that sidewalks are supposed to be done first. If there's another funding source, it will be used, not this one.
The Highwayman comments: Council is "micromanaging without a microscope."
Coffey gets unctuous in praising the decision to share information. Gibson responds. The orchestra swells.
I want to teach the world to sing,
in perfect harmony
No mayoral communications ... ordinances.
(see part two)
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