NA Confidential: Either you'll get the joke, or you won't.

Thursday, January 27, 2011

Either you'll get the joke, or you won't.

40 comments:

The New Albanian said...: If I'd have known that John Newbanks is president of Rotary this year (Bridges Authority propagandists spoke at Rotary earlier today), then I'd have tagged the keg for sure. As it stood, I did not want to embarrass MK. I'm just too nice of a guy.; 9:33 PM
VetteMan said...: Roger,

Did you see the One Weekly for 1SI. They have announced the 350 project. The last 3 months have been hard for me to hold back. You know my wife is one of the VP in charge of it. You need to make your reservation to see Cinda Bakter speak. I can get you a free ticket if you need one.

:-); 7:14 PM
bayernfan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6:49 PM
bayernfan said...: Hate to spoil that "gotcha" moment for you, VM, but we've (New Albany First, of which Roger is a board member) been well aware of this effort to start the 3/50 Project for, I don't know, 6-7 weeks now. I'm on the task force for their effort and had a lovely phone conversation with your wife many weeks ago. Sorry that you had to "hold back" for so long when it really wasn't necessary.

I'm happy that 1SI has jumped in with a buy local campaign. It doesn't affect what we're doing with NA1st, however. We'll continue with our own buy local program and independent business alliance. Any other group that wants to jump on the bandwagon and make people aware of the importance of buying local are certainly welcome.; 8:07 AM
VetteMan said...: bayernfan said...
"Hate to spoil that "gotcha" moment for you, VM"

Don't worry you didn't.

"had a lovely phone conversation with your wife many weeks ago."

She is lovely is't she. People like her are what I beleave in at 1Si. I hope it will be a big success, most of all for New Albany.

And if Roger and outhers would back off 1Si because of a diffrance on one or two issues, they might get a few customers back.

Roger might not want me though.

I do miss the beer cheese. :-); 12:16 PM
VetteMan said...: Bayernfan,

I just wish you would correct on this Blog a misleading comment that you made. You stated that someone from the Chamber told you at the book store that 1si said that they couldn't help you out, but they would be happy to take your money. It was in fact just another member. You implied that it was a staff member.

I will be looking for it.; 12:36 PM
bayernfan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12:42 PM
bayernfan said...: I assure you, there was no intent to mislead or imply anything. Simply a statement of what happened.; 1:05 PM
The New Albanian said...: And if Roger and outhers would back off 1Si because of a diffrance on one or two issues, they might get a few customers back.

That's what I always say: Vive dif France.; 8:29 PM
VetteMan said...: bayernfan said...
"I assure you, there was no intent to mislead or imply anything. Simply a statement of what happened."

The problem with unintentional affects is they still happen. Actions speak louder than words. The better practice is to come out and say, it was not a 1Si Staff person like what was implied.

That's the real fact of what happened.; 10:07 PM
Jeff Gillenwater said...: Given that differences extend well beyond one or two issues (what was that about intentions and affects?), it would be helpful for 1Si to adjust their policies to reflect a long-term commitment to 350 principles.

I'll be looking for it.; 9:15 AM
bayernfan said...: As my friend Roger says...Jay-sus! Fine. For all of you that were so terribly concerned about whether it was a staff person at 1SI or just a long-time member who has served on various committees and wanted to let us know what we could expect if we joined 1SI I can tell you it wasn't a staff member.; 3:12 PM
Iamhoosier said...: Don't give in to economic pressure Roger. I promise to purchase more beer cheese to make up the difference. (grin); 3:45 PM
VetteMan said...: "just a long-time member who has served on various committees and wanted to let us know what we could expect if we joined 1SI"

I smell the strong odor of Bull Shit. If you don't say a name it's all a lie to me. See Andy, I say your making things up to look good to your friends.; 4:31 PM
Iamhoosier said...: You asked him to clarify that it wasn't a staff member. He did that.

Now you want to be a dick about it?; 4:48 PM
bayernfan said...: I knew that's what the next question would be. VM is awfully predictable. As it stands, I really don't care if VM believes me or not. Doesn't affect me in any way.

And I'm well beyond the need to "look good" to my friends. They're my friends, I don't have make things up. But if I were going to and I was really concerned about having to "look good" to them, I certainly wouldn't have told them that I was willing to work with 1SI on the Cinda Baxter event. However, I'm pretty secure in knowing that I don't have to do stuff like that to retain friends.

Because I truly want to try and work with your wife on this, I'm going to cease responding to you at all. Probably best for all concerned.; 5:52 PM
VetteMan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8:14 PM
Iamhoosier said...: VM,
Like several of your actions, you say, "Well, so & so did it first".

Is your middle name Jethro? Sounds like you are still in the sixth grade, back in Bug Tussle. Do you actually have any FIRM principles that guide your life?; 8:28 AM
VetteMan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8:46 AM
The New Albanian said...: And yet, so very dimly, I struggle to recall what Jeff wrote here so many days ago (two?):

Given that differences extend well beyond one or two issues (what was that about intentions and affects?), it would be helpful for 1Si to adjust their policies to reflect a long-term commitment to 350 principles.

I'll be looking for it.

I'm looking and waiting for it, but VetteMan, seriously, just keep on poisoning the well with your bitterness about my policy of compelling people to renounce cowardice and be who they really are, and keep ignoring the question asked here that matters most.

Thus far, I'm following a wait-and-see policy with regard to 1Si's vastly belated entry into giving a shit about small business. With your persistent pettiness, you're actually doing all you can to turn me against it.

If that's what your wife really wants, it's cool with me. Why don't you ask her?

Roget; 8:54 AM
Iamhoosier said...: Cowardly? How do you figure that?

You came here masked and actively(important word)tried to hide your financial & emotional "ties" to 1SI. Now, that doesn't excuse what happened to you here. If you will remember, I immediately protested. Jeff and Roger are my friends but that doesn't mean that we always agree. I think they were wrong.

Oh, that's called a principle. Look it up, Jethro.; 9:08 AM
VetteMan said...: Roger,

Actions speak louder than words. As you said, you will wait and see. At the same time people like Jeff is try to hurt the 350 project and Small Business in Southern IN. This project will help businesss just like yours.

All I ask is you request the same from others as you did me.; 9:14 AM
VetteMan said...: Iam,

My principles are standing up for the ones that cant do it for them selfs. You and I don't have the restraints of others. My principles are family first. I don't lie to my clients to make a buck. I will not try to hurt or destroy a person or a company just because I don't care for the person or policies of either. Everyone has a right to a view, because of my principles I just don't use my rights to hurt yours.

As far as my name I'm not afraid to use it. It's on my profile, unlike most in this blog.; 9:46 AM
VetteMan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10:02 AM
Iamhoosier said...: My name is also in my profile. Along with an email address. It's there for anyone to contact me, if they would rather speak "privately" about something. Hardly cowardly.; 10:03 AM
VetteMan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10:03 AM
VetteMan said...: Iam,

That last part was not directed towards you. Sorry if it sounded so.

Take care.; 10:05 AM
The New Albanian said...: Yawn.; 10:07 AM
The New Albanian said...: What an interesting morning.

It's nice to know that 1Si's chosen propagandist, the Empress Baxter, has the same commitment to free speech as Hosni Mubarak and Vladimir Putin.

VetteMan, between you and Cinda Baxter, I've become a changed man.

Where before I was going to let this whole thing slide past, confident in the certainty that soon enough, 1Si would get bored trying to do the right thing, drop the small indie ball and return to licking Kerry Stemler's (boots), now I know that I must actively picket the Baxter fete.

In short, "No Blood for 1Si" will return to downtown New Albany. It will be a marvelous and theatrical photo-op, and NABC/NAC will hold a free-of-charge media event with beer and vittles to provide a truthful perspective to the horseshit coming down today.

It's such a relief to me. Thanks VM, and especially, thanks Cinda. Without Cinda's clere commitment to censorship, none of this would be possible.

Tell the missus! It's going to be a party!; 12:59 PM
VetteMan said...: The real Roger is now here. You and Jeffs actions only hurt the same people you say you want to help.

Yawn is right.; 1:09 PM
The New Albanian said...: Tell me true, VM: How's your position on free speech?

C'mon -- now I'm interested again.; 1:13 PM
VetteMan said...: Roger,

I believe in free speech, what I don't believe in trying to hurt good people with speech. That's libel. The things you suggest for others could happen to you one day.

Again the people you clam to want to help you are hurting.
How big of you to atack a person that is trying to help this area. Is it because someone beat you to the punch. Did you want the fame for bring it here? There is plenty of room for you and others with out trying to hurt everyone not on your side. Is free speech ment to only have your view like on this blog. If someone disagrees with you, you atack them. I followed your rules as you set them and only after my views where different than yours did you change the rules. Now who has a problem with free speech.

My very first comment to you was I was not out to hurt your business or you personally. I just disagreed with the personal attacks on the people. I choose not to eat at your Rest. but would not stand in front and tell people not to go in. I could, it would be my right. I just choose restrant and exercise my principles.

The offer stands, I will buy your ticket, heck I will buy Jeffs ticket and we can sit together. See I can put personal issues aside to do a greater good.

Can You?; 1:43 PM
The New Albanian said...: How big of you to atack a person that is trying to help this area.

I suggested to Ms. Baxter that people from other places might like to know a bit more about 1Si actually does around here -- you know, for the sake of context.

For this I was summarily censored, although in truth, I expected it. After all, as a paid speaker, she has to protect the people paying her fee. That's life.

Meanwhile, the part you can't seem to fathom is that whenever 1Si is willing to pony up to the exurban poison it has spread with tolls and political endorsements, I'll be at the negotiating table.

1Si cannot constantly act in opposition to the interests of small business, then come panting at the last minute to take a so-called lead role and restrain free speech while they're at it.

So far, I don't see that transparency happening, but I'm forever willing to reason together. Funny, but others seem not to want that.; 1:57 PM
VetteMan said...: The New Albanian said...
"So far, I don't see that transparency happening, but I'm forever willing to reason together. Funny, but others seem not to want that."

Let's build on that, you and I will never agree on political views but the debate is somewhat entertaining. The Bridge issue we split we both want them (east-end first) just differ on how to pay for them. Both are against tolls but I say if it has to be done to build it then so be it.

Beleave me it will hurt me more than most if tolls are in the final package.

What I don't get I you are a small business and like all small business could use any help you can get to stay alive. I beleave the people I know and trust at 1Si, like my wife want to help small business in this area. Don't try to destroy to greater good because you disagree with a few at the top of the organsation or hell me if that's part of it.

I have a intrest in the area doing will just as you do. Bottom line when it comes down to it this small community is home to us both. I want you to succeed, I want NA to succeed.

Trying to get in the way of efforts ment to help is not in the best intrest of anyone. Most of all New Albany.

If it will make you happy, I will buy your ticket and sit somewhere else. :-)

Let's try one time to stand as a group, see if that opens any doors to other issues.

Thanks,; 2:53 PM
The New Albanian said...: It is tempting to think that standing together in such a fashion might be meaningful, but what I don't think you see is that any act of compromise on my part merely benefits the already over-inflated standing of the very same 1Si higher-ups who keep advocating policies in opposition to my interests and those of others.

VM, of course you want me to cut your wife some slack. I'd feel the same. She's a foot soldier, and I know that. She takes orders and carries them out, or she doesn't keep her job.

But right now, she's little more than a human shield, protecting the fat cats and higher ups from proper scrutiny. If she succeeds, care to guess who'll take the credit, and use it as justification for fund-raising?

If I thought for a single minute that this "1Si finally buys local" tradeoff was my only available option -- that I must let the Dalbys and Stemlers crow about their deft marketing touch because they provided small indies with something they couldn't ever do on their own -- perhaps I'd take 1Si's faux magnanimity a bit less cynically.

But there is no reason why we cannot do it for ourselves, in New Albany, and without the crass blood money for the Clere Tolls advocates.

Mistrust? You bet. It comes from 1Si; I react to the stimulus.

Having said all this: I will sincerely consider your offer. I may actually accept it. However, right now, I have to be elsewhere for a bit. I'll be back some time tonight.; 3:29 PM
Jeff Gillenwater said...: And that's exactly what makes Cinda Baxter and Project 3/50 attractive to said higher-ups. They can bring her in to lend themselves temporary credibility knowing full well that she will not challenge their organizational status quo no matter what it is. Her presence will not necessitate the examination of their own policies and advocacy practices one iota.

There are other individuals and groups that offer more expertise and resources in the realm of buy local and sustainable local economies, have been at it longer and much more in-depth, and are readily available. They are, however, less safe in terms of actively asking relevant questions about our local economic development activities.

On the whole, 1Si leadership has not shown much interest in those types of questions, instead relying on decades old, shopworn techniques aimed at limiting development conversation and choices rather than expanding them.

As such, said higher-ups are not leaders but lobbyists who drag both their own employees and the region into a morass of their own design, enforced with political clout whenever possible.; 4:30 PM
VetteMan said...: "If she succeeds, care to guess who'll take the credit"

Roger, all I can tell you is this project is very important to her and Matt. They are not looking for credit. I know of whom you speak, but look at the other side. If they fail, an organization with resources like they have. Makes it 10 times harder for someone else to succeed. Don't take my word for it, talk to her. She will tell you how much southern IN. means to her. We have several friends that are small busines owners just like you here in Southern IN.

Some things are more than a job, she walks the walk. I think you do and believe in that same thing.

We may not agree on the who, but the end result being the 3/50 project working and NA benefiting is the best for all. Take it from me, who gets credit is not why they are doing this.

If I'm wrong I will stand with you and admit it.

Thanks; 4:40 PM
bayernfan said...: "But there is no reason why we cannot do it for ourselves, in New Albany.."

We can and will do it for ourselves, the NA 1st committee is doing great work on the ground now, we're working on a funding source and then this project will take off. People are responding to the message, they're excited about it and I have no doubt that NA 1st will succeed. You may not realize, but over 50 businesses responded to our Buy Local flyer program with over 5500 flyers printed (and hopefully distributed). We build on that and keep pushing forward. That's what I plan to do.; 5:03 PM
Jeff Gillenwater said...: If they fail, an organization with resources like they have. Makes it 10 times harder for someone else to succeed.

I don't think that's necessarily true. While a portion of their resources come from a relative few that tend to run counter to the community overall, if 1Si were to change its leadership tune I think two things could/would happen:

1. The employees there who care about the community and work hard would be able to engage in more legitimate, open conversations, visioning, and planning endeavors concerning the future of the region, rather than being tethered to a political agenda erroneously deemed inevitable by a few.

2. They would enjoy much broader community support and cooperation. I wouldn't expect to agree with them all the time, but I'd actually like to have a chamber of commerce that wasn't dominated by such narrow viewpoints and high profile, shall we say, fibbers.

I'm guessing that VM is aware that some folks utilize 1Si based on their respect for some of the staff but severely dislike the politics/leadership tied to the group. If that barrier were removed, I know more people would be more likely to work with those staff, as well as highly qualified business and community-minded folks who would actually like to work at 1Si or at least in conjunction with them but won't affiliate with them now.; 5:32 PM
G Coyle said...: 3/50 is just a spend money so we can make money focused marketing effort of American Express. It's not at all local. Maybe the staff at 1SI will win a free cruise or something if enough people come sign up at their party?; 9:35 PM