Just yesterday, I came close to an encounter that perfectly illustrates Jackie's point. I was riding through Coffeyville northbound on West 7th, and stopped at the Spring Street four-way. Two pickups were headed west. The first stopped as required ahead of me, and rolled on through. The second followed close behind with his blinker (how rare is that?) indicating a turn onto northbound 7th, and I could see from my vantage point that the driver was looking down and to his right (north), without once looking south to see if anyone else (me) was stopped at the intersection.
There were no other cars, so I eased slowly into the intersection. There was never a chance of contact because I was fully aware, but just the same, he never once looked up, and never once came to a full stop until he was within a few feet of me, at which point he finally glanced, slammed on the brakes and motioned at me to go ahead.
Duh.
I could see immediately that (a) he had been talking on the phone using some manner of headphones, and (b) his attention had been distracted by the gyrations of a miniscule dog. As I moved on, I said aloud, "I know," in the sense of yes, it certainly is my turn if you'd bother paying attention. Had I been another vehicle, he'd have known.
Of course, that couldn't be the end of it. He roared a few yards ahead of me, stopped, and began yelling: "You have a problem? I didn't see you! I told you to go on! What's your problem? People make mistakes!"
(yap yap yap, went the little dog/rat)
To Jackie's list of tips for survival on local roads, I'd add this: Learn to use a rearview mirror. I use one that clips onto my eyeglasses, and there are models for attaching to the helmet (wear one!) and the handlebars.
Bicycling safety and the law
Recent cyclist deaths and the newly launched “Street Sense” campaign — a city-backed program promoting road awareness — demand an alternative perspective.
Cyclists are threatened, injured and killed because:
1) Drivers drink; 2) car brakes fail; 3) roads are not always dry; 4) passengers, food, phones and on-board electronics distract drivers; 5) drivers are blinded by sunlight, car lights, and dirty, wet or icy windshields; 6) drivers lose control of their vehicles; 7) the medicated, the angry, the infirm and the stupid all drive cars.
None of the above is dependent upon “respect” commanded by the behavior of cyclists. Quit blaming cyclists.
To carry over from the last post, I don't think bikes and cars mix too well, ever. i support bike lanes in the downtown, sure, but we're a vehicle driven society and as long as you try to intertwine cyclists and cars, there will be deaths.
ReplyDeleteI have a similar debate in rural western Kentucky, as we have a large Amish population. There have been several accidents and a few deaths involving buggies and vehicles in the past decade. While some were because of speeding, many were not. With the amount of curvy, rural roads there, you can come over a hill doing the speed limit and pop up on a buggy and not have time to stop. I know because it's happened to me and if something had been in the other lane, it would have resulted in a wreck.
My point is the buggy and the bike both have the right to the road, as does a walker, but it's not sensible. There are horrible drivers, but for every good biker there's one that drives against traffic, weaves around cars and basically does everything they can to get hit.
I just think from a safety standpoint, bikers need to be on the sidewalk or in their own lane, not mingling with traffic. Every year in college there was at least one death of a cyclist getting hit in Lexington near campus, it's not worth the risk.
If we had designated bike roads, paths, and lanes alongside our roads like they do say, in Germany, we could eliminate most of the danger and dramatically increase bike use. Of course, we're too poor and macho for that here.
ReplyDeleteWell, our country was built on cars, that's part of the macho behavior I guess. But yes, paths will be the only safe way, and that's no guarantee.
ReplyDeleteYes our country was built on cars. Was it George Washington or Abe Lincoln who said that?
ReplyDeleteYou know you're right, bikes have been the backbone of our country for so long, putting people to work and getting ppl from point A to point B a heck of a lot faster than the past, leading to more infrastructure being built and even more jobs. Oh wait, that was the auto industry, bikes make you look cool though!
ReplyDeleteBikes are traffic. Using single occupancy automobiles as the primary transportation system in urban environments isn't sensible. It never has been.
ReplyDelete1. Most people who regularly bike also own a car. There’s a time and place for everything. Besides, no one’s arguing we ban cars.
ReplyDelete2. If everyone did spend less money on cars, that money doesn’t just disappear. The would-be car money will be spent on other things, like beer and fixing up old bread stores. Adjustment does take time but not forever. To argue that auto jobs are an irreplaceable part of the economy is erroneously Luddite.
I agree. I try to walk wherever I can because I have road rage and driving puts me in a bad mood. But I don't think bikes, walkers or golf carts belong on a street. Doesn't really matter how safe you're being as a cyclist, there's just too much danger. We need lanes.
ReplyDeleteTo argue that we would be half the nation we are without cars is just plain stupid. Imagine if we all had was bikes. I mean seriously, you would have to live in the middle of the city because you couldn't go anywhere else. Not to mention all the time that's saved by cars. My question is if Germany and the like have it all so figured out, where's their immigration problem?
ReplyDeleteMy comments about auto jobs was referring to the past. Dude if you want to live downtown and never get much beyond three or four blocks on your bike, more power to you. Just don't get in my lane on Spring. And after you save some money by not buying a car and rehab a business, you better hope it's near the bikers' paradise because I don't see too many people biking over from Louisville to our downtown. I do, however, see a lot of cars outside a particular old bread store...
Likewise, arguing that the least sensible (more expensive, less safe, more polluting) transportation options available to us should continue to be given priority and everyone else should have to find workarounds is a fool's game.
ReplyDeleteBy making better transportation choices on the whole, the travel environment becomes safer for cyclists and pedestrians by default.
As Jackie mentions, it's not infrastructure that directly kills cyclists. It's large, motorized hunks of steel driven by people whose only qualification is that they once passed a single, elementary test at some point in their lives. Less of those means fewer collisions for everyone, regardless of which vehicle they ultimately choose.
One quick point you touched on, I'm all for drivers being retested every five years, definitely.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm also for better transportation that's cleaner and safer, my point is and has been cars and bikes don't mix. Either install a lane for them or ban bikes from roads, just like golf carts are in most places. Our country isn't going to quit driving, in downtowns or anywhere else. We need sensible plans, not continue to do the same and hope drivers become more skilled. Have drivers retested every five years, charge like a $10 fee and put that money towards installing bike lanes in downtowns.
Perhaps Steve K should send Daniel S to Europe to do field research. It might help inform his opinion, which currently is just that.
ReplyDeleteI'll go over and kick ass like it's 1776, or 1944 I guess would be more like it. I'm perfectly fine here with my stars and stripes. Perhaps that's why the French are so mad about a 40 hour work week, they know they need the extra 10 hours for biking to and from work. Talking to my dad and brother who spent two weeks in Europe, all I missed was bad food, a lot of rain and a bunch of lazy drunk people.
ReplyDeleteSee, even though you're not FROM here, you can devolve into mindless self parody as well as any native. As such, it's time for a bike ride for me!
ReplyDeleteDidn’t the French bail us out when the British were kicking our ass in 1776?
ReplyDeleteI'm fortunate that Mrs. Bayern doesn't read this blog very often, otherwise I'd be in for a long night...joking or not, it wouldn't matter..
ReplyDelete" you can devolve into mindless self parody as well as any native".
ReplyDeleteFrom what I witnessed Thursday, you may be leading that charge. And it's a one-way route even less productive than Spring Street.
As for the French, they make great salad dressing and fries, I think. But yes, they helped us out, then again with some indian troubles, then we liberated them in 1944. I think we're even.
Man I don't have anything against Germany, Dirk Nowistki is cool. But, we complain so much in this country and act like the rest of the world has it figured out. Not hardly, from what I've witnessed. We have it great here, better than anywhere else in the world. Mexicans aren't jumping our fence to the south left and right for exercise.
ReplyDeleteMy question is if Germany and the like have it all so figured out, where's their immigration problem?
ReplyDeleteHere's a list of nations along with the percentage of their populations which are first generation immigrant:
US..............12.8%
Germany.........12.3%
France..........10.2%
Switzerland.....22.9%
Ireland.........13.8%
Whether or not that’s a “problem” is up you.
My guess is you've found a poll here based on citizenship, not illegals. Now I think we're all just drifting further and further away from the point into some argument over what country is better. Maybe you could add to those first generation numbers in Germany or wherever else if America is such a drag. I mean, why stay some place you hate? Apart from disaster or war, the American way of life isn't going to change much in our lifetimes. Just be careful about what country you choose, some aren't as tolerant of citizens criticizing their governments as we are.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the EU, there are over 8 million illegal immigrants in the 27 member countries. The majority come from Africa and Turkey. There are rising tensions in some areas of the EU due to this issue.
ReplyDeleteIt's a real issue everywhere, Daniel. This isn't an American problem. People everywhere are trying to find a better life.
The person who wrote:
ReplyDelete"Now I think we're all just drifting further and further away from the point into some argument over what country is better."
Was also the one who initiated the drift in the first place:
"I'll go over and kick ass like it's 1776, or 1944 I guess would be more like it. I'm perfectly fine here with my stars and stripes. Perhaps that's why the French are so mad about a 40 hour work week, they know they need the extra 10 hours for biking to and from work. Talking to my dad and brother who spent two weeks in Europe, all I missed was bad food, a lot of rain and a bunch of lazy drunk people."
Dan, nice try with the immigration statistics. You may be confusing the reporter with too many facts.
Now those are good facts. Hey, I'm not here to tout the anti-immigration banner by any means. I'm just here to argue about bike safety, my number one goal in life. It just seems on this blog, whenever we talk about downtowns or streets or bikes or transportation in general, some say we need to be just like some European country. Others think we should be just like the euros period. I'm not one of those people.
ReplyDelete"From what I witnessed Thursday, you may be leading that charge. And it's a one-way route even less productive than Spring Street."
ReplyDeleteOuch. Damn copperhead strikes back.
I may have to change careers and go into investigative journalism, seeing as there's a shortage of it hereabouts.
Europe has learned a lot from us. We have a lot to learn from them. Since when does suggesting that we still have much we can learn from one another equal America bashing?
ReplyDeleteAwww. Daniel made fun of Roger and Dan's bikeys now they're getting all mad. Awww. Perhaps you could rename the blog our way or the highway, bike it or lose it. I did start the drifting, we can continue it. I just think if you don't start respecting other people's opinions, yours will become nothing but white noise.
ReplyDeleteIt would be about the only journalism you've ever done. Your hypocrisy grows with each analysis of coffey and price, considering you don't hold the council members who pat you on the back up to the same fire. Like I said. White noise.
ReplyDeleteI just think if you don't start respecting other people's opinions, yours will become nothing but white noise.
ReplyDeleteGood advice. It works on the international level too. Wish Bush would have taken your advise, Daniel S.
I wish Bush would have done a lot of things, but I better not write those due to security issues.
ReplyDeleteSee how much more rewarding the conversation is when you know the participants by name?
ReplyDeleteI just put another posting up, and it should summarize my feelings on the matter without taking pot shots.
Hypocritical or not, I have no intention of refraining from calling a self-serving second rater a self-serving second rater when the occasion arises, especially if his actions as an elected official are detrimental to the commonweal.
Now, we all must listen to what Rick Pitino has to say at his press conference ... NOT.
Later.
Publisher issues abound.
ReplyDelete"Publisher issues abound"
ReplyDeleteYou'd like to think so.
I know so. I'd like to think it mattered.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the it considers itself too highly.
ReplyDeleteSeems like everytime a LEO story is posted here anymore, Daniel gets upset at some point. Weird..
ReplyDeleteDaniel is perfectly happy and content. Daniel does find it to be rather childish, chickenish, heck you feel in the c word that you like, to make one line threats about somebody's job just because you don't agree with what they say. But hey, with age doesn't always come maturity.
ReplyDeleteIt just seems on this blog, whenever we talk about downtowns or streets or bikes or transportation in general, some say we need to be just like some European country.
ReplyDeleteThat's because a lot of the people who post here have experienced those things in Europe, and by and large they do it better. It doesn't mean they do everything better or that one country is superior to another.
Personally, I have had the fortune of extended stays in three countries (Ecuador, Cyprus, Germany), and these trips have made me appreciate some things about our culture and the United States more and some less. Travel gives you perspective more than anything. It's painfully obvious that many of our councilmembers lack perspective.
or a backbone
ReplyDeleteI agree, but traveling doesn't make you an expert, it gives you a brief glimpse.
ReplyDelete... bikes make you look cool though!
ReplyDeleteI am a 250 lb man in a bright yellow shirt and spandex pants and a helmet reserved for people with massive head injuries. The last thing on my mind is looking cool.
If I wanted to look cool, I would start smoking.
No one is claiming to be an expert, I don't think.
ReplyDeleteBesides, I think you would agree that being an "expert" is not a prerequisite for posting an informed comment, and a lot of posters here have informed opinions on urban issues, and certainly biking, through reading and personal experience.
Personally, I want to read and hear informed opinions no matter what the angle. The blathering from people without the slightest clue of what they are talking about gets to me. Again, that's a city council reference. A lot of those folks make no effort, whatsoever, to inform themselves.
It's also true that a lot of folks who actually are experts point to various European cycling and transportation models as providing directly observable, working examples of how those areas could be improved here.
ReplyDeleteSome folks say that cars and bicycles can't coexist without putting one or the other in eminent danger. Some European countries, however, have proven otherwise via decades of firsthand experience.
What's disturbing is that, very often, opponents of shifting towards a more bicycle friendly culture often attack the country from whence an example comes on nationalistic and, at times, factually incorrect grounds rather than focusing on actual transportation outcomes.
Ahhh, isn't life so much better, calmer, and friendly when I stay out of the scrum?
ReplyDeleteKeeping my trap shut makes me more likable every day...if being likable is what you want out of life.
If I may interject, though, I hold that it is nigh unto immorality to keep quiet when injustices abound.
And yes, probably every one who has posted on this thread has a too-high opinion of themselves. Me included.
The publishers of this blog have my hearty thanks. Just think what they could do if they devoted 40 hours a week to newsgathering, analysis, and commentary...oh, that's right...they do.
one out of three ain't bad
ReplyDeleteTime to get to work on those YES signs. Too bad IAmHoosier is out of town. He'd have loved this.
ReplyDeleteDaniel, is there any truth to the rumor that you're being reassigned to the Birdseye beat? You and Cappuccino could carpool ;-)
Credibility.
ReplyDeleteYawn.
ReplyDeleteI've been hit by a car on a bike. It sucks.
ReplyDeleteAlso, let's not forget about runners. I barely venture out of residential neighborhoods, and I still almost get splattered to the concrete by totally oblivious people behind the wheel.
P.S. People may not like bikers on the road, but if you hit one, good luck in court. You may find yourself short a few pennies afterward. Remember, pedestrians (and cyclists) always have the right-away. And this is all true in the good, old U.S.A.
Don't bring your legitimate arguments around here Evan, nobody wants to hear that crap. Only self serving points will be heard and subsequent chest thumping.
ReplyDeleteBtw, if I hit you while you're jogging, it won't be an accident...
Evan, didn't I see you jogging the other day when I was out threatening the serenity of post-WWII imperial American drivers by daring to ride my bike on their roads?
ReplyDeleteYup, that was me, powering myself by my own two feet. It's such a crazy concept!
ReplyDeleteDon't I know it.
ReplyDeleteFor the people who have made statements against people who either ride bicycles for transportation or just for the fun of it, I really feel so sorry for your family and loved ones. Fore everyday that they have to feel your hatred toward others must be a painful experience. To make such a hateful statement must be the real you or you are just using this site as a game for your pleasure of trying to push peoples buttons.
ReplyDeleteYou must not be well traveled, well read or just plain uneducated about the good for the common man.
I forgive you. May you find peace.
PS...You may contact me at namur97@yahoo.com if you wish to chat about this particular subject.
If you're referring to me, I definitely never made a statement that people shouldn't ride bikes.
ReplyDelete"i support bike lanes in the downtown, sure, but we're a vehicle driven society and as long as you try to intertwine cyclists and cars, there will be deaths."
My comments were based on common sense, not some sense of entitlement that cars, which roads were mainly built for in the first place, should be thwarted so we can take twice as long to get everywhere.
Perhaps your sermon would be better directed at others here. But you'd be wasting your breath, they already know everything there is to know about everything, trust me.
"But you'd be wasting your breath, they already know everything there is to know about everything, trust me."
ReplyDeleteAnd like a moth drawn to the light, our journalist friend can't stay away from the scrum.
Actually, speaking as the out-of-control, know-it-all creator of this lounge, I find that refreshing.
My comments were based on common sense...
ReplyDeleteYou look out your window, common sense tells you the world is flat. You're used to driving on roads without bikes, common sense tells you roads shouldn't have bikes.
Nevermind there's evidence that the world is round. Nevermind that there are other places were bikes and cars peacefully share the roads.
I recommend this group for you, Daniel S.
www.theflatearthsociety.org
It suits your way of thinking.
Out of control? Not really. Know it all? Really. I like it here usually because you can have a pretty good debate. What I don't like is when people try and get so personal that they want to make vague threats about your job...blah blah blah like your shiny headed friend has done twice now. Those actions defy everything Democracy is supposed to be about, and show a person who is self serving and only promotes their own agenda.
ReplyDeleteSure, I could act like I'm two and make some comments about our local museum or falsified police reports, but all that does is push people away from debates, and thus silence them and disenfranchise them from wanting to take part in our governing system.
Bluegill, If you wonder why people here don't vote, don't take part in meetings and generally have quit caring, start by looking in the mirror.
Common sense also tells me when a group spends more money on booze and food than what they claim to represent, they're only doing it for selfish reasons.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDaniel, you've reached the point where I must say: You need to take a good look in that mirror, too.
ReplyDeleteAlthough it's nice that it only took 50+ posts for you to finally puke.
You may now take a deep breath and explain to me what you mean by the "food and booze" crack. Don't worry. I won't be angry. There's no way you can lie to the extent of "Erika" Denschak.
That one had nothing to do with you.
ReplyDeleteI know. I have no issue with you slashing and burning the past couple of days, but it's my gentle way of saying that if it's become that personal, you might consider taking it elsewhere -- but if it stays here, I have the junior editor's back.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't expect it to be different. But it should be noted the slashing and burning didn't start until the bull was prodded. Perhaps it would be better if I just cowered behind my thoughts since I'm a reporter, but I'm not the hiding type. I don't take my opinions into stories, never have, never will. I report what people say, what they do and if I have time, I look for as much background as possible. People at this paper work their ass off, from the top to the bottom, basically just so they can get ridiculed by too many armchair qb's. If it's legit, we do our best to correct it. But I'm not going to twiddle my thumbs and listen to a bunch of crap that isn't.
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell are you talking about, Daniel? Falsified police reports? Spending more money on booze and food than what they claim to represent? Our local museum?
ReplyDeleteI repeat: What the hell?
"I don't take my opinions into stories, never have, never will."
ReplyDeleteFunny you should mention that, since in my most recent armchair QBing at BSB, I was defending the reporters and critiquing the newspaper's unwillingness to push its periodic editorial stance to a consistent and logical conclusion.
And that's not you at all, is it? What it comes down to is that myself, Matt Nash and others get paid to write columns taking stances that the editorial board should be taking, but that's cool -- it's a 1000% better than it used to be, and I, for one, have been here long enough to know that AND appreciate what little I get to write.
Anyway, that's not about you at all. Maybe I shouldn't have written it. Hmm. Maybe that's a trend in the making.
There are self serving reasons why one would want a bike friendly community, whether it be cool or fun or whatever.
ReplyDeleteThere also are self serving reasons why one would not want a bike friendly community. Such reasons might include perceived inconvenience to drivers, cost of adding bike lanes, etc.
The biker’s self serving reasons are accompanied by altruistic reasons: health benefits for all members of the community, reduced pollution, reduced energy dependence.
I’m curious to read the altruistic reasons for not sharing the road?
Dude I've said it till I'm blue in the face WE NEED MORE BIKE LANES!!!! My only argument, since my first post, which I would have never made if I'd known it would have come to this, is that bikes in car lanes are a bad idea. You can't trust drivers to make the right decisions, so you need the gov't to step in. Make bike lanes, pedways, all that stuff that does help business and it keeps people safe. Not all the time, but more than now. I've also said I prefer walking or taking a bus somewhere to driving, because people can't drive. But I don't walk down the middle of the road and think it's safe, cos it's not. That's my motivation, your safety, mine too. Because when I pop around a corner going 30 mph and a biker is in the lane and I have to slam on my brakes, I could get drilled from behind.
ReplyDeleteAs for Roger's comment, our editorial staff pushes us all the time to stay up on those topics. How about you buy an ad and support your local paper and we can hire some more reporters to cover that much more.
"How about you buy an ad and support your local paper and we can hire some more reporters to cover that much more."
ReplyDeleteI never ruled it out, but I have noted on numerous occasions that someone in adland must demonstrate to me that the Tribune's demographic is one that would justify the expenditure.
You, Daniel, debated me on the point. Adland was silent. No wonder you're steamed -- you gotta do their job, too?
Let me take a different route, why not support your local paper because it's YOUR local paper. I'm not saying you're going to fall over in amazement every morning, but you know every day we publish we're going to bring you your community. Few wire stories, just stuff that matters to the community. Or at least we give it our best try. But I'm no adman, I'm just a humble, car driving bitch.
ReplyDeleteRandy, I'm purposely ignoring you, don't want to go there anymore.
Jon ought to be nearly drowning by now.
ReplyDelete