Just yesterday I pedaled past the site of the B & B Bar & Grill and paused to watch the cinderblock construction as a new building rises at the corner of Culbertson and 15th. I'm assuming that the owners are rebuilding. Does anyone know for sure?
Then, word came this morning that Bottles Unlimited has burned, too: Downtown New Albany liquor store destroyed by fire.
Bottles Unlimited went into business in the early 1980's. As with Scoreboard Liquors on Spring, a big part of its business came from Louisvillians at a time when Kentucky's archaic liquor pricing laws remained in effect. Until Bottles arrived, Scoreboard had the off/on ramp monopoly, and the freshly minted package competition highly annoyed Scoreboard's owner (and my boss at the time), the late Jim Creech.
My youthful opinion at the time was that Scoreboard should relinquish the price-driven trade and go upmarket with higher quality selections, tastings and information unavailable elsewhere. It was the strategy subsequently pursued, albeit a decade or more later, by the Bairds at their Old Mill shop on Charlestown Road. But of course it was Jim's money, not mine, and anyway, I always intended to pursue other possibilities -- and on occasion actually did. He stuck with his business plan, and more often than not, got beat at it.
Soon afterward the Kentucky laws changed, and the playing field leveled. Bottles still had the superior first-past-the-post field position, and in 1988, Scoreboard lost its lease and moved uptown, where it sputtered to a halt in the late nineties. Jim died five years ago, and I miss him. Had the timing been different, I still think we could have put our heads together and come up with a way of reinventing the liquor store for a different market.
Amid the steadily improving urban clutter around Elm Street and State at the I-64 ramp, Bottles Unlimited has been a successful, productive, long-term business. Will it rebuild? Catastrophes like this often serve as opportunities, and this one might afford Bottles Unlimited a chance to reinvent itself downtown, and become part of a fresh wave.
Since the site is so close to the interstate, I wonder if it would work for bike parking / TARC transit spot. Chicago has some good models for how this can work well.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should let the ashes grow cold first.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad no one was hurt, unless you count the historic building destroyed next to Bottles Unlimited. I should also say, just to piss everyone off, that Bottles Unlimited was one of New Albany's "brand" images in the minds of visitors. It signaled as soon as you left the interstate that you were in a sad little place. Imagine if that corner actually signaled New Albany was a real town where people live and work, ala Dan's suggestion of a regional transit hub? This could be one opportunity for "re-development" that could massively impact people's preceptions of our little ghetto-on-the-move.
ReplyDeleteI dont hink you are going to make anyone mad with that Gina (unless you stop to consider, like what the business was/is or not, it is still someones business, and had jobs). But I, and probably others take exception to the constant referral of New Albany as the Ghetto.
ReplyDeleteGina,
ReplyDeleteYou know, why does this city have to be referred to as the "little ghetto on the move." If you don't like it, then I suggest you pack your things and leave. Nobody is stopping you.
In fact, with a passive-aggressive attitude such as yours, you help keep things the way they are. Your comments are divisive and mean-spirited. Your approach (at least in your comments) does nothing to improve the situation. In fact, I consider it yet another slap in the face of those who at least attempt to make improvements for the greater of the good…including you.
I'm sorry, did I miss something in the census stats about poverty, drug abuse, or teenage pregnancy rates...% of residents who are rentors, who receive Section 8 housing...Blah, blah, blah...4 schools closing. Kerberos, I'm just going by the facts. What proof do you offer the city proper is NOT a ghetto by standard definitions? Have you visited New Albany?
ReplyDeleteI'd love more than anyone for this "ghetto" to become a decent place to raise a family. Oh, I'm already trying to do that. Thanks for your help.
"pack your things and leave.." typical bullying, are you proud of that?
Kerberos:
ReplyDeleteGina and I live only one block apart. Over the last couple years, she has done much to her house to improve her home's appearance, much more than many of her neighbors have done. As someone restoring his own old house, I know the work she's done was not inexpensive and likely the cause of many headaches. I've also attended many neighborhood meetings with Gina where she was an active participant. She is invested here and wants to see this city improve. I've heard the "if you don't like it, move" reply used too many times against people asking for change. I don't that particular reply ever is the best reply.
Gina:
While I disagree with his word choice, I understand why Kerberos's wrote his post. Like you, many are working hard to improve our neighborhoods. The battle isn’t always fun and many of us need occasional encouragement to trooper on. Perception is half the battle. Questioning why things can't improve is the essential first step in improving things. You do this well. But looking at your comments’ word choice, your critiques sometimes come off as mere criticism instead of constructive criticism. I know this is not your intent. I agree with you that the Bottles Unlimited location can have a higher and better public use than a liquor store. I agree too that New Albany has some catching up to do in poverty rates, education, housing, etc. I hope in the future you can phrase your concerns in ways that do not cause readers to become demoralized or to question whether your criticism is meant to be constructive.
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ReplyDeleteIt amazes me that while two business owners have just lost their livelihood and employees have lost their jobs, if only temporarily, people here are more concerned about what might be rather than what is. What right do any of you have to suggest anything other than to offer support to these people and wish them well as they regroup? If you're so concerned about the entry to New Albany, what about the empty gas station lot? That's much worse of an impression than a thriving business. What's next? Is someone going to take shots at the church on the corner of Scribner because it's too fundamental and doesn't suggest a positive, enlightened image of our people? Since when did a liquor store imply ghetto or slum or to borrow Gina's words, "a sad little place"? The owners of this business are respectable people; the individuals who work there are friendly, helpful and considerate. They contribute to this community in many ways. So, throw stones if you must, but I'll tell you that you don't have a clue in hell about the people you're criticizing. Get off your high horses and realize that their contributions to New Albany are at least as important as yours.
ReplyDelete1. Across the nation, changing demographics, economics and cultural preferences are changing downtowns. New Albany is just part of a much larger trend. This will create opportunities for some local businesses and challenges for others. Ultimately, whether the businesses affected by the tragic fire decide to rebuild in the same spot is up to them. If they do, they do. But they may decide it makes more sense to locate elsewhere.
ReplyDelete2. All New Albany businesses have owners and employees. Not all New Albany businesses contribute equally to healthy neighborhoods and a vibrant local economy.
Yep, and thoughtlessness counts for something, too.
ReplyDeleteGina,
ReplyDeleteFrom a stats perspective I see your point, although after looking at the stats and the dictionary, I will have to agree with Josh. The proper term is slum. However, I don't particularly care to refer to the city in which I live as either of these terms. As Josh pointed out, this is typical of most cities this size. It doesn’t mean we can’t change it, and we are, but it is the perception.
To Dan's point, it is all about perception. It's a mind set and an attitude that is reflective of who and what we are. I grew up in Sellersburg. I moved to Florida in 2000. When I had the opportunity to move home in 2005, I chose to live in New Albany because I saw the opportunities and possibilities then. In fact, I chose to buy my house specifically based on the school in which my kids participate. That decision was made before I even left Florida and before my kids were of school age. However, if all I had to go on were what you post the majority of the time, I would have never even considered moving here. That being said, I have to say after living here for those 5+ years, we have made several significant strides. In my view, the changes in the community, particularly the downtown area, are a significant improvement from 5 years ago.
I am not suggesting we hide what happens here, but I am suggesting there needs to be a "mind shift" of sorts in how we talk about where we live or who we are. If my child had a below average IQ, I would not go around and tell everyone he/she is stupid, nor would I call him/her stupid to his/her face. I might say that he/she may be challenged in certain areas, but is brilliant in other areas. Would you describe any child with or without a condition stupid? If so, then why? Would you do it even if the stats were true? Do you think this child would grow to have any positive self-esteem ever? When a person describes him/her as "little people" or we live in a "ghetto" or "slum" then I say that person's perception must be their reality. I think it is sad it has to be this way. I think it is demoralizing and degrading.
Dan,
I appreciate you bringing to my attention all of Gina's contributions. However, I don’t really get your point because, as I see it, it is her job. Just like it is mine and every other responsible citizen in this community. I, too, have done many things since arriving here 5 years ago. However, I don't think I need a pat on the back for doing what I feel is my job and responsibility to myself, my neighbors, my fellow citizens, etc.... I am not in it for fame or glory and I don’t really have a personal agenda to front. I do it because that is what I am supposed to be doing.
I will agree with the "pack your bags" aspect of my post. Maybe it's not the most mature thing I could have said. However, Gina's record, from a blog posting perspective, suggests otherwise. Again, it's all about perception.
To be honest, I have read this blog almost daily since its inception or soon thereafter. I know what Gina was trying to say before I posted. However, after repeatedly hearing the same type of belittling comments, I felt the need to respond.
When I posted this yesterday, I had not been to the scene to see the extent of the fire. Alcohol is flammable. It's a wonder we seek to ingest it.
ReplyDeleteSBAvanti63's comments are right on the money. My first thoughts were, and remain, that I hope the business owners are able to rally and remain part of downtown, whether by rebuilding or relocation, because there's nothing intrinsically "ghetto" or "slum" about a package store.
This Who-ville already had plenty of Grinch's. Unfortunately, two more just raised their hands.
ReplyDeleteI want to write pages about your callous attitude toward REAL people who just lost their business. Since my writing skills suck, I'll resist and just say, you two make Dan Coffey and Steve Price look good in comparison.
IAH,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I find your "grinch" comparison unfair.
No one wrote that they were popping champaign that the place burned. People have written on this blog before that they wished certain businesses close (tire shredding operations, slumlord rental "businesses," etc.). That's not what I wrote.
Not all package liquor stores are equal. If stating the opinion that Bottles Unlimited was not the ideal neighbor makes one a grinch then I suspect New Albany has more than two. I personally would love a different type of liquor store. If they reopen and rebrand in a way that better contributes to the neighborhood, I'll greet them with open arms and a shopping list.
7 hours after the fire was discovered, you were already "grabbing". While maybe not popping champagne, it's pretty damn close.
ReplyDeleteDon't like Grinch? How about Scrooge? I stand by my comments. It's not a matter of what is best for that corner--it's a matter of human decency. Unbelievable that I even have to explain that.
Grinchs, Pollyannas, ... call your neighbors names, it doesn't change the perception people have when they drive into and around New Albany. Has anyone here perceived the brand message when our mightily struggling downtown is surrounded by REAL poor people with REAL problems?
ReplyDeleteWhen I encounter real people with real problems, brand message isn't the first thing that crosses my mind.
ReplyDeleteWhen I see such insensitive responses to real people with real problems, though, I think about it more. There are different kinds of poverty.
ReplyDeleteLosing one's business and livelyhood is not a "real" problem? Couldn't wait a week or so? I tried to be "gentle" with my first comment but, obviously, neither of you got it or just didn't care. And still don't.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I used names. However, since I was raised with some sense of decency, I refrained from using the most choice ones that came to mind.
I'm not sure what astounds me more. The fact that this conversation exists in the first place or that a day later, people still don't get it. "...rebrand in a way that better contributes to the neighborhood"? Could you be any more pompous and thoughtless?
ReplyDeleteI hope the business owners had sufficient property and business interruption insurance that they do not suffer economically and that they and their employees can get back to work quickly, wherever they decide to locate.
ReplyDeleteWhen I wrote my first post, I had in mind the usual posters are readers. Never have I read on this blog that a reader worked at or owner Bottles Unlimited. If one did read my post and did find it insensitive, I apologize. That was not my intent.
The sidetracking of civic dialogue into personal attacks, is for me, one of the dysfunctions that defines NA's perennial left-behind mind-set. I don't think I've ever seen a single point of debate brought forward here, or anywhere in NA, without it devolving rapidly into personal polemics. Can the city move into the 21st century with a citizenry that can't have open debates on issues that affect 40,000 people, not just the interests of new downtown merchants?
ReplyDeleteSo try, try to have one discussion without referring to the people discussing it personally, just stay with the issue. It's liberating.
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ReplyDeleteGina wrote:
ReplyDelete"I'm glad no one was hurt, unless you count the historic building destroyed next to Bottles Unlimited. I should also say, just to piss everyone off, that Bottles Unlimited was one of New Albany's "brand" images in the minds of visitors. It signaled as soon as you left the interstate that you were in a sad little place."
You've got a lot of nerve complaining about name calling.
Mark
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ReplyDeleteBike parking, inviting gateways and package liquor are not mutually exclusive.
ReplyDeleteThe city could negotiate with the business. If I were mayor, I'd investigate offering the owners an economic incentive to rebuild. The city could hand the owners a check but the check would come with land use restrictions. For example, the restrictions could require approval of design elements such as integration of bike/transit facilities and certain facade, landscaping and signage elements.
Of course, if the city were to do so, you'd want to start the negotiations with the owners before they spent too much time paying architects for other designs or before the owners committed to another location.
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ReplyDeleteViewing people in terms of their "brand" image value automatically reinforces a pernicious discourse thats sees people as deficits...
ReplyDeleteI draw a distinction between:
(i) the image presented by a particular business's physical facilities like its storefront and parking lot, and
(ii) the image presented by its owners, employees or customers.
We've commented on the appearance of physical facilities. No one has commented negatively on the people.
Also, I draw a distinction between:
(i) noting that a downtown business can improve its appearance and
(ii) "re-creating downtown in the homogenized 'brand' image of the suburbs."
Do you believe no building in New Albany should improve its appearance? If a community should, either with carrots or sticks, ever support improving the visual impact of a private owner's property, what is the best way to achieve?
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ReplyDeleteRoger,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the UEA already has a full plate of projects and already has funds committed.
However, I cannot help but notice that Bottles Unlimited is in the Urban Enterprise Zone. Since the UEA has a history of making facade grants, might Bottles Unlimited make as good a grantee as any, assuming they are open to incorporating certain design elements?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJoshua,
ReplyDeleteI knew that's not what you meant and asked my question only rhetorically.
Many sudden jumps to generalizations and assumptions today.
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ReplyDeleteOK, there are a couple different issues here. Let's lay them out so we're all on the same page.
ReplyDelete1. Whether insensitive to speak of change in business model or site use so soon after fire.
2. Whether generally, attractive gateways are good.
3. Whether Bottles Unlimited building, parking lot, signs negatively impacted on gateway and/or other surroundings for purely visual, aesthetic reasons.
4. Whether presence of clients and/or employees of Bottles Unlimited negatively impacted on gateway and/or other surroundings for purely visual, aesthetic reasons.
5. Whether package liquor stores in general negatively impact neighborhood health for non-aesthetic reasons.
6. Whether something about Bottles Unlimited's operations in specific negatively impacted neighborhood health for non-aesthetic reasons.
What am I missing?
7. Whether higher, better public use for site.
ReplyDelete8. Whether worth while or even ethical for city to persuade, either with sticks or carrots, Bottles Unlimited to move if better use for site.
...
Suffice to say, this has gone in a very different direction than I imagined when I wrote the post.
ReplyDeleteIt was not my overt intent to stir things up, then re-enter and ask with mock innocence why everything's all stirred up. That's not "attacking" a person insofar as a person said and did it -- not a tree, a dog or a stream of urine.
I should have been more explicit in stating my thesis: 25 years in any business is damned good, especially after Southern Indiana lost the pricing edge, and let's hope they come back and are able to revitalize based on the revitalization. I know them, but very casually.
Continue this if you wish. I will not remove it because I don't believe in that sort of thing.
Roger wrote...
ReplyDeleteBottles Unlimited has been a successful, productive, long-term business. Will it rebuild? Catastrophes like this often serve as opportunities, and this one might afford Bottles Unlimited a chance to reinvent itself downtown, and become part of a fresh wave.
I'm hope they're open to ideas for how they might "reinvent itself downtown, and become part of a fresh wave." I'm curious to hear such ideas.
Attractive gateways are always a good thing, but I would much rather look at a mediocre building facade and KNOW there are some families that are earning an income, over a space that is designed to be more "metropolitan" any day.
ReplyDeleteMy whole issue with this thread was the immediate and rather harsh language used to describe our community as a whole.
The consistent referral in any conversation that we are a collection of ghetto-ites, living in a slum, is disheartening at least, ire inspiring as well.
Sure we have areas that are not very pleasing to look at. And sure, we have impoverished families living close to the downtown area. But what cities are not like that? Are we to implement economic status zoning codes?
I personally do not buy a lot of alcohol, and when I do, there is a shop just down the way from my home I can get to and back home in a couple of minutes. But I truly hope the proprietors of bottles unlimited, as well as the old general automotive building can rebuild, and do so in a manner that reflects the architectural style and theme that would not only fit in but compliment the area.
But above all else, I am grateful that no one was injured physically, and I hope the impact on the jobs that were at least temporarily lost is remedied quickly.
Dan,
ReplyDeleteTo comment on your first post.
I would be very disappointed if the site would become a TARC transit spot.
I am not against the idea of a transit spot in New Albany but I think a better spot would be in the new parking garage.
I posted a link about how another Indiana city did this very thing and they received 9 million in federal funding for a 13 million garage.
What ever happens to the block that Bottles Unlimited inhabited it will always be a high profile area.
And if we are offering wishful thinking I would love to see a multi-story commercial/residential building. Not only could Bottles Unlimited re-inhabit the location but also others thereby maximizing the use of the space.
Dan, your input on this matter will carry more weight then most posting on this blog, with you being on the redevelop commission I hope you will understand the points that I have made here.
I agree with you that it takes an innovative Mayor to see the potential in a bad situation and you are now apart of that process.
And I know that this is a touchy area for some but this very topic is what will make a difference, it shouldn't be taboo.
The word isn't "taboo". It's respect. Look it up.
ReplyDeleteMark, I understand the respect issue. I don't think anyone here is trying to be disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know that there is a morning period for such matters.
The future of this site will be an issue no matter what, and I agree with Dan that by asking what's going to happen we can make the situation better for the owners and community.
Personally, if I lost a business in a fire I hope that the community would be considering ways to make the situation better for everyone. As long as everyone is respectful to each other.
Thanks RemCha. For clarification, I'm on the Economic Development Commission, not the Redevelopment Commission, but your point is still taken.
ReplyDeleteIC 36-7-12-17(a) states:
An economic development commission ... shall investigate, study, and survey the need for additional job opportunities, industrial diversification, water services, and pollution control facilities ... and shall recommend action to improve or promote job opportunities, industrial diversification, water services, and availability of pollution control facilities....
I have no intention of pursuing EDC involvement in the Bottles Unlimited site but if someone else thinks there's a benefit in doing so I'll give them a fair hearing.
Economic Development Commissions traditionally have focused more on issuing tax-exempt bonds to fund heavy industrial facilities. But as our economy changes, and as our understanding of what promotes sustained economic growth deepens, the tactics of ECDs should evolve accordingly. ECDs have authority to address "transportation" issues but tackling bike parking would be a first. I'm open to input on the appropriateness of such.
As a final note, when defining ECDs' scope of authority, the General Assembly specifically excluded "any store the principal business of which is the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption off premises" from being direct beneficiaries of ECD actions. (See IC 36-7-11.9-3(2)(N))
I had a conversation this morning with the owner of Bottles Unlimited while standing in line at the PO. He says they will be rebuilding on the site.
ReplyDeleteHobKnob's building, Bottles Unlimited's building, and the two buildings in between all are owned by one Louisville landlord, Karban Properties LLC.
ReplyDeleteKarban owns a few properties in Louisville, including a Dental office on Preston, two check cashing operations on Preston and Hikes Ln., and the building containing Rainbow Blossom on Shelbyville Rd.
I'm sketching on the details, but I hear that the insurance company has given the landlord 30 days to decide whether to rebuild the existing structures. Apparently there may be an alternative to demo the whole corner, but I reiterate, I'm sketchy on the details.
I would not be surprised if a high traffic, flat, vacant corner lot like that would attract the interest of a chain developer. My ideal uses for the lot would not include a Burger King or CVS. Right now, is anyone working to see that that's not what ends up there?