Friday afternoon I stopped by the Bankstreet Brewhouse for a liquid pick me up prior to going home.
It had been a long week what with truck drivers, freight brokers, and Common Council meetings and I needed to unwind a bit. At least that was the original intent.
But alas, it wasn’t to be.
I had no more sat down & ordered a beer when I happened survey the room to see CM Gahan at the small bar behind me.
Now being one whose Mamma taught me that it was impolite to holler at people across the room I invited him to join me. My BAADDD!
He began the conversation by asking my position on the proposed hiring of more policemen.
I said that I agreed with the plan and he responded that he didn’t think it was either sustainable or necessary.
“The statistics don’t support the need for ten additional officers!” was Jeff’s position.
Huh??? Whose statistics??
About this time John Gonder who had been talking to Roger a short distance away, joined in the conversation.
He agreed with Gahan that the plan was neither necessary nor worth the money at this time.
This as always led into a heated discussion about the use (proper or otherwise) of EDIT funds.
“They are for economic development, not employee salaries!” said Gahan.
“They shouldn’t be used for either new officers or the Sewer Utility!” responded Gonder.
“So John” says I, “are you going to lead the charge to take the $875K of EDIT funds out of the Sewer Utility’s hands?”
No response.
Gahan offered on the one hand that the Sewer Utility was rolling in dough and didn’t need a rate increase.
“OK!” I say,” Then let’s take the EDIT monies away and see! If they can stand alone without being propped up, I’ll shut up about rate increases!”
“But they need those dollars to pay for the ongoing projects!” responds Jeff.
“Time out Jeff!!” I retort “You can’t have it both ways! Either they need the Edit funds to operate or they don’t!”
“Don’t put words in my mouth” says Gahan. “I can think of no better example of economic development than that which has gone on in the Charlestown Road corridor. Those EDIT funds helped to build the infrastructure that made all that possible.”
CM Gonder at some point in this exchange offered that he thought using said funds to forgive a tap in fee on occasion was a good thing but not to construct the entire system while the landowners/developers get off scot free.
By now my beer is getting warm and the conversation is getting even hotter so I turned back to the job at hand and they both finished their business and left.
Reflecting on this exchange over the weekend a few questions came to mind for your consideration.
Is there an election this fall that I didn’t hear about??
What is this elusive animal called Economic Development?? Can anyone me a simple definition of what that term entails?
Can any two people from either the private sector or government agree on that definition?
In the end, who benefits from it?
Lastly, my favorite unanswerable query.
Can someone please explain how providing infrastructure improvements to landowners/developers at subsidized rates makes more economic development sense than does providing safe, clean, crime free neighborhoods for average people to invest and live in?
I gotta go eat pot roast fresh out of the oven but please continue the discussion.
I’m anxious to see the answers!
This is a real “meaty” post H-man. How was the pot roast?
ReplyDeleteEconomic Development means nothing linguistically. Maybe it was coined to mean whatever ups the tax base. My sense is that in practice it’s a giant gov’t slush fund of sorts. Since you can basically define pretty much anything a gov’t body does as economic development, in a fairly corrupted system like NA’s, it’s spent according to political whim. Thus making it one of the juicier bits of tax revenue.
There have been many many research studies showing that when state and/or local gov’t bodies use tax money to compete for businesses (job creation) - Economic Development - it’s a lose-lose for everyone in the end. Not least for the reason it stifles the free market. Plus, do you trust the city of NA, for example, to know best what businesses to support with Econ.Dev Funds, tax abatements, etc?
The only sustainable economic development local gov’t ought to be involved in his protecting and enhancing public safety, infrastructure, the justice system and education. The whole free market deal is the private sector, given safety and fairness, will take care of the rest. Hence my constant amazement at the city and how it (dys)functions.
Re. the tales from the smoky back room chapter 47: Thank God there aren’t ‘Sunshine laws” or opening meeting rules in Indiana.
Can someone please explain how providing infrastructure improvements to landowners/developers at subsidized rates makes more economic development sense than does providing safe, clean, crime free neighborhoods for average people to invest and live in?”
Read up on Colonial economic systems or visit your favorite third-world country , or follow the money, or...
To use some EDIT funds for a specific sewer project is acceptable to me(under certain circumstances). To use EDIT funds just to keep the rate lower is idiotic.
ReplyDeleteI'm also not particularly crazy about the idea of using EDIT funds for salaries, either. I think we need some extra officers and definitely the crime technicians but paying for them that way does bother me a lot.
I wish I was quick witted enough to think of these tidbits during the conversation but I don't seem to be so I have to ask them after.
ReplyDeleteAs to the sustainability of additional officers on our police force if I heard correctly Paul Haub said the first year cost was $83K per unit.
That figure included salary & benefits, training, and initial equipment costs (guns, uniforms, radios, etc.) per man.
Much of that is a one time item.
The following years would entail the officers salary/benefit package per man.
One would think that the orginal figure would be cut considerably after that first installment.
In addition annexation seems to loom our our horizion and that will bring more tax dollars to the general fund. That's assuming of course that those aren't subsidized as well.
Even more than that if our department does it right, I understand that whatever cash or real property is confiscated in a drug bust is (after conviction) the property of the police department to be used as they see fit.
So the question becomes, does the idea that this is unsubstainable really hold any water?
Or is it as it seems, more pandering for political gain down the road?
Does anyone know if the department is applying under the COPS Hiring Recovery Program (CHRP) that is part of the stimulus?
ReplyDeleteThe figure Det. Haub used was the average cost of an experienced officer. The figure came from Kay.
ReplyDeleteA first year patrolman's salary is not very high. The reason they use the 83k(or whatever)in the first year, is as Highwayman says, first year expenses. However, the salary goes up substantially in the 2nd year, so basically there are no cost savings in future years. That's why I am concerned.
IMO,
ReplyDeleteThe salary going up is contingent on contract talks if I'm not mistaken.
Aren't they a one year deal?
The county portion of EDIT was intended to pay for the new jail construction. How is this considered "economic development"?
ReplyDeleteUsing their original intention it is an easy leap to pay for more police.
HWY,
ReplyDeleteYeah, but I don't think that you are going to see a great change in the contracts. First year officers are paid low--kind of like a probationary period. 2nd year officer gets a big boost in salary.
Even if the police accept no raises for next year, the jump from first(rookie)year to second(experienced)year salary would probably remain. If not, then the police would be agreeing to a two tier pay scale and I don't think that is going happen--at least not with that big of gap.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteYou are correct.
We were also told that it would go away when the jail was paid off.(And no, I didn't believe it then either)
My problem with using EDIT for salaries is, there is no end. Even with the jail, there was defined period that the funds were committed for. Where is defined term for salaries? Please note that I write "salaries". In this case it just happens to be police.
Actually, I have mixed thoughts about this(as normal). The funding landscape has changed as for as what the state is doing or allowing to be done. I realize that. Once committed to salaries, though, I don't ever see the end of it and we may need those EDIT funds for something else. Can you imagine the outcry if we try to lay off 5-10 officers in the future?
Although this post seems to have gone into a discussion of what a copp makes, I’ll return to one of the original questions – how best to use CEDIT funds?
ReplyDeleteI wrote a splendid epistle on this several weeks ago and will quote a portion of that missive below:
“I suggest following the pattern used by many other Hoosier communities that have successfully revitalized themselves. Let us study these other communities and use the best parts of their programs for ourselves . . .
. . . uses of these funds include job training, loan pools and revolving loan funds, as well as case-by-case economic development projects.
Lafayette’s job training program pays $1,000 per new job up to $50,000 and is funded by TIF and EDIT monies. They also use their TIF and EDIT funds as incentive packages for job recruitment on a case-by-case basis.
In South Bend, some EDIT funds are appropriated on a case-by-case basis for economic development projects while, at the same time, an independent Business Development Corporation administers a revolving loan fund for community economic development projects. Thirteen percent of these funds in South Bend are given to outside agencies (including the Chamber of Commerce and their local business attraction efforts) for economic development projects. Evansville, Vincennes, East Chicago, Hammond, Fort Wayne and Michigan City have set aside EDIT funds for similar purposes.
Models abound across Indiana for the successful use of EDIT funds. Why not consider borrowing one or more of those models and implementing them here?”
Plenty of successful Hoosier communities know how to properly use CEDIT funds – why not look around and use them as examples?
Dammit, Mike, would you quit pointing out that there are numerous successful models out there?
ReplyDeleteYou're ruining the defeatist, reactionary vibe.
Head hung, chin on chest, grimace on lips :)
ReplyDeleteMike,
ReplyDeleteAgreed on the many different ways to effectively use EDIT funds. That's why I am hesitant about using EDIT funds for public employee salaries.
I may be misreading your comment about the discussion evolving into what a cop makes but I disagree. I don't think anyone posting in this particular thread is saying that the police are paid too much or too little. The point is the use of EDIT funds to pay for 10 additional officers without a clearer picture of how to pay for them in the future. An end date.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteI could have misunderstood the end-date thing, I did a quick read and decided to join in since I rarely do.
I don't think using these funds as salaries is the proper way to expend them (although I do know of some e.d. entities that use a portion of CEDIT funds to pay salaries as well as programs. Inside the field that is a discussion in and of itself).
Let me clarify: while I could justify paying an e.d. professional with these funds, and I might be willing to use them for a short period (end date in sight) to pay someone outside the field, as a general rule, I don't think this is a proper use of the funds.
I guess I was responding to the "what is economic development" argument. I think there would be a huge benefit to the community if there were such a discussion and a general agreement could be reached as to a general definition. I know (as someone trained and continuing to train in the field)that I have a much different idea and definition than does someone "outside" the business. Not many years ago Community Development was not considered E.D., now it is for the most part. When that happened, well, everything changed. New approaches were found, new ideas bubbled up to the top and an entire new world opened up.
New Albany is kind of like me at Terry Middleton's sometimes when I go to boxing class . . . standing in the corner boxing at my shadow . . . I really think some definition could help further define the matter.
Hope some of that makes sense - trying to do five things at once.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteI think that we are on the same page.