(Updates are in progress Thursday ... see the comments section, and join in)
There has been a spirited discussion, both on line and off, since NAC’s Tuesday posting on alleyway filth, garbage non-collection, non-partisan political spinelessness, the timeless slumlord protection program, and other enduring components of the New Albany Syndrome.
See: PHOTO UPDATE: Meaningful civic renewal: Invasive, not evasive.
I’m moving the most recent comment here, to this new posting, in the hope that a discussion will ensue.
A Democrat in Floyd County said...
NewAlbanian, How can we get a new "code enforcement officer", a new "para-legal" for Shane's office, and "new" Building Commissioner -- and this stuff is still going on?I noticed they took down that Condemned sign too over on Market.
What gives? We've tried for ten years, to the point where my husband and I were slandered on the front page of the newspaper for trying to clean up one of the worse houses in NA. It's glued to my fridge (from it's old days) because of age. Couldn't get it off if I tried. New Alb Annie isn't kidding when she says there are a bunch of us that started trying to clean this mess up starting ten years ago, and we're still going.
It'd be nice if we could all join hands because we really want the same thing -- clean up New Albany.
It’s a question asked by many at present.
Why are we not joining hands in this most worthwhile of neighborhood crusades?
Discuss.
But why is there resistance to joining forces when almost everyone seems to be agreement that there's a problem?
ReplyDeleteTo me, this issue is one that starkly highlights the cowardice of our local political parties, which will not get involved in questions like this.
Or am I mistaken?
All well and good, and I agree, but the whole cycle will be repeated without local government doing what it is supposed to do, and is paid to do, in addition to being pro-active about conditions, i.e., absentee slumlords, who are responsible either directly or indirectly for so much of the problem.
ReplyDeleteNo one denies that we'll have to do much of the work ourselves.
But how do we break the cycle without government helping?
Apparently, our government officials are convinced that ignoring the problem will attract more votes than attempting to solve it. Ultimately, the trash cycle must be linked to the election cycle.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, it might be prudent to help the cause by delivering alley and yard trash to Hauss Square. They seem to be having trouble holding the offenders accountable or coming to pick it up. Perhaps citizens could help by taking it to them.
Hauss Square transfer station?
ReplyDeleteBrilliant!
Thanks. It only seems fair. It also meshes well with my idea to decentralize government offices.
ReplyDeleteGiven that space in the City-County Building is extremely limited for both personnel and public meetings AND that, barring any much needed but highly unlikely radical changes in our criminal justice system, the jail will eventually need to be expanded AND that Hauss Square is always kept in tip-top shape regardless of limited resources, I think that each government office should be placed in individual houses or commercial buildings scattered throughout our historic neighborhoods.
At least one building or house on multiple blocks in numerous neighborhoods would be renovated and occupied; those purchase and renovation costs could be recouped by allowing the jail to expand into the existing City-County Building, saving money on additional land and construction costs; the NIMBY principal would kick in meaning that all the areas around the respective offices would be kept clean (Ever seen trash piled up at Hauss Square? I haven't.), and the increased presence of government officials and pedestrian traffic would act as a deterrent to further littering, dumping, and crime.
Of course, something like that would take forethought and cooperation and we can't seem to get the current crop of vote junkies to pick up some trash.
In the early 1970's there was near nationwide movement comprised of what was left of the family farmers to protest the imbalance of what the farmer was paid for his product versus what the consumer had to pay at the grocery counter. The middlemen were making out like the theives they were.
ReplyDeleteThe planned protest was to quietly withhold milk, eggs, dairy, meat, and produce from the market for one week and see what happened.
Instead, a group who thought a more public display was needed to shed light on our plight, loaded up with their shiny new multi thousand dollar tractors, emaculate 35 foot travel trailers, and fully dressed all wheel drive pickup trucks(complete with light bar on top and gunrack in the back window)and descended on the mall at the foot of the Washington Monument.
When they arrived, the TV crews were waiting for them with microphones in hand and cameras rolling. The "farmers" couldn't resist the temptation and proceeeded to run their mouths before their brains engaged.
All the while their comrades in arms were having tractor/truck pulls on the emaculate lawn of the mall as America's housewive's/grocery buyers watched in stark horror!
The public's reaction was fairly equally split between either "if they can afford those big tractors, luxury travel trailers, and fancy trucks, they can't be in that dire of straits" or "how did these dunderheads ever find their way to DC in the first place?"
The result was, the protest failed in all aspects, most family farms went belly up, and those dunderheads became truck drivers. Comforting visual isn't it?
My point is we don't need to or want to make a spectacle of this. We just want to clean up New Albany.
Press coverage would be great and probably useful to our cause provided we let others stick their foots in their mouths and prove our point for us.
My hope and goal is that;
1)Disparate groups all over New Albany can learn to work together on a common goal,
2)That some of our current elected officials will see the light and work with us to acheive that goal,
and/or
3)Out of the process will step forward some who are willing to replace the naysayers!
Lofty goals one and all but attainable ones I choose to beleive!
Focus people, focus!
I left out the 4th goal in my previous comments.
ReplyDeleteHopefully we can ultimatly muster enough collective influence to convince those in city government to create and enact the legislation needed to resolve the slumlord rental property issue as well as fund the staff needed to prosecute said offenses.
Long term, this is the only viable solution to prevent the reoccurrance of that which we are now facing.
Why the local party heads are remaing silent on all of this is still a mystery. However, waiting on them to do so is not an option we can afford.
Why the local party heads are remaing silent on all of this is still a mystery. However, waiting on them to do so is not an option we can afford.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think it's so?
Personaly I think it is classic post JFK old school arrogance.
ReplyDeleteThey are still convinced that our voice will tire. That we will get frustrated, bored,& disillusioned and just fade off into the sunset while what has been for forty some odd years will continue as usual.
For the most of them, the concept of government of, by and for the people wherein the people actively participate is as foreign as the airplane was in 1492. It's an idea that could not possibly ever be a reality.
"They're too dumb to understand and too beholdn' to us to try" is their matra behind closed doors. "So long as we shake their hands, kiss their babies, and tell'em what they think they wanna to hear, they'll flock to the poles like lambs to the slaughter!"
Well pardon me for being presumptuous, but I for one ain't jumpin' in that boat!
My Hauss Square suggestion was a semi-joke but I think it raises a valid point along the lines of Lloyd's comment from a previous thread suggesting that crummy landlords don't live in the neighborhoods where their rentals are located.
ReplyDeleteGovernment officials wouldn't put up with that kind of trash in their space for a day or two but residents who've lived with it for years are told to be patient, even when no one at any level of local government is actively bringing the issue to the table.
I don't want to come off sounding like an anti-government zealot because I'm certainly not one but, regardless of financial condition, we always find the resources to maintain certain parts of the city and never find them for others. That's just true.
I'm certainly not in favor of Hauss Square becoming a problem area but have we ever actually decided that maintaining appearances at City Hall is more important than living conditions in our own neighborhoods? If so, when?
I'm quite serious about the decentralization of offices. I think it could be beneficial long-term and is worth exploring as part of a larger solution. Though I loathe the term, it's human nature to look out for one's own interests. Spreading those interests around a little seems to make sense in a way that's almost too simple.
Some probably think it an unwise idea, but I'd submit that it's at least one more than the whole of our city government has publicly proposed to deal with the clean up issue in the past two years.
I think there are a lot of reasons for the lack of party leadership participation and Lloyd has broached one of them. One more is the desire to be all things to all people. As soon as one starts to define what something is, what it's not becomes more clear and voters tend to turn out more for negative reasons than positive ones, that is, to vote against someone or something.
Beg people to support something and they won't but piss them off and they'll make time to vote against it. I'm not sure why that is but I've seen it repeatedly and it suggests itself as one of the basic building blocks of reactionism.
If my vague memories of Psych 101 count for anything, I think it may have something to do with peoples' desire-fear-need to feel like they're a part of solving a problem rather than responsible for creating one. At any rate, the proactive incur far more risk than the reactive. If one never takes a stance, one rarely has to be perceived as wrong. As Roger has noted, it's evident which takes more courage.
It follows that the less outspoken someone is, the less likely it is for a voter to find something to be against. Deniability increases while accountability decreases. Unfortunately, it often costs us our best chances at improvement.
Last year there was a move to have some of the city or county offices relocate to the downtown area. The old Fair store was one suggestion.
ReplyDeleteAt the time the president of the county council was against the idea, and in fact was kind of labeled anti-downtown to boot.
That councilman lost his seat in the primary, could the tide be turning? Will new councilmember’s be more receptive to the idea?
I feel sure that a move like using downtown would be a lot cheaper than adding an addition or a floor to the current city/county building. Might be a tad cheaper than building that new building out on Grant Line road too!
I guess the moral of the whole story is that this year’s primary is starting to show that voters are fed up and ready to strike, hope that movement keeps growing, we need to educate the public more and more about the city councils inept ability to move this city forward.
Earlier during this discussion, Rick C. said: "We need to educate the public more and more about the city council's inept ability to move this city forward."
ReplyDeleteOver at FOS, the anonymous faux academic writes: "Where does the accountability of these problems start and end? We say the Building Commissioner and the Mayors office!"
Which is it, then?
Isn't it the case that the primary factor standing in the way of "joining hands" is that for some, there can be no satisfaction until the Mayor is politically decapitated, while with others (including me), the council's ineptitude and consistent failure to lead is the primary culprit?
Verily, the New Albany Syndrome goes back a long way, and there's plenty of blame to go around -- past and present.
However, this does not address what is to be done!
Furthermore, judging from Erika's scattershot targets, there's another factor impeding unity:
"And to Greg Roberts: Why does all the attention for clean-up go to the East End? What about the West End and the rest of the City? Do you only think about yourself?"
We don't think the hooded Erika has appeared on the barricades, and whether she's fought a good fight in her entire life is open to question, but let's give her credit for pointing to a misperception -- because that's precisely what it is, a misperception.
Right?
Personally, I'm not aware that there has ever been a geographic disclaimer attached to Greg's public advocacy on behalf of ordinance enforcement and other matters.
Wouldn't joining the effort make more sense if someone like Erika really wants to accomplish something?
Or is she saying that as long as people she doesn't like are leading the way, she'll (they'll) have nothing to do with it?
Wouldn't it be better if we all could be in the same place at the same time, and let all these things hang out?
I know I'm in.
Actually, Courtney, we don't know where the anonymous blogger lives, just that she finds it omre enriching to criticize from behind a mask than to join hands.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I hate to give her credit, the "vomit" at least nods in the general direction of a valid concern, so I'm going to take a deep breath and ask a question:
How many of the following have been sighted in attendance at neighborhood forums?
Councilmen
Hispanics
African Americans
People who rent
Political party officials
Guess what? There've been more councilmen at one meeting than the other groups combined at three.
In all likelihood, Erika's a white, middle-class homeowner. She's not being oppressed, except perhaps by a bad temper -- and they make nice pills for that.
I firmly belief that to date, the amorphous "clean up NA" movement has not been discriminatory or exclusionary in any way.
And yet, important elements of the community are omitted, and presumably, they're being told by the same old agents of the same old politics as usual that one or the other party has their best interests in mind.
And, in turn, those parties make no stand and do nothing to address root causes of the squalor.
The factors that impede unity must be attacked and dismantled with the same ferocity as we desire the clean-up. Status quo thrives in an atmosphere of division, doesn't it?
Period.
Courtney, we're on the same wavelength.
ReplyDeleteIt may be the case that certain communities don't want to take part, but I'm not yet convinced (Tribune announcment to the contrary) that they're hearing the call.
It's no one's "fault," obviously. Just another piece in a large jigsaw puzzle.
Just for the sake of discussion, I agree with you NewAlbanian & Bluegill. It is a political beast, and those aren't half bad ideas, Bluegill.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter who the Mayor is; they're just doing what they are told. I could try and hold Council at fault, but gosh darn, they don't hire the Building Commissioner, Zoning Officers, nor the City Attorney to enforce the laws. They can take the monies away if they're not doing their jobs, but that isn't happening either.
Scatter the whole 3rd Floor of the City County Building out through the neighborhoods and make them work next to what we live next to.
As badly as the West End's rep is looked upon, it is not his fault his area is the dumping grounds for New Albany, in more ways than one.
Thanks for the conversation. There may have been a lot of truth in an article I read on one of the Blobs about all these slum houses being "little money trees". I think that story spoke volumes about what is really going on in this town.
Tabitha and I will be attending a function this evening to further explore Study Circles, a program of the non-partisan Study Circles Resource Center aimed at helping with the exact participation and involvement problems mentioned.
ReplyDeleteWe'll obviously need to approach the situation with with a critical eye but, via the hard work, dedication, and relationship building of some folks in our community, this organization has volunteered its services to New Albany in preparation for the city's potential participation in the NeighborWorks national neighborhood revitalization pilot program.
I'll certainly report more when I have some of my own questions answered. While there'll undoubtedly still be unrepentant naysayers, from what I know so far it could be a good tool to facilitate some of the unity we seek.
Thanks for joining the conversation.
ReplyDeleteCan we agree that re-establishing some notion of accountabilty is going to require both City Hall and the council?
And are we agreeing that neither of them seem to be taking the lead in outlining the problem, offering a solution, and working to achieve it?
I don't agree that Garner is 100% responsible for New Albany's problems. They go back a long way. However, he is the CEO now. If I was the head honcho, I'd be instructing my appointees to make building code enforcement a priority. Maybe Garner has, but it does not appear so.
ReplyDeleteEnough of the blame game, though. That's what gets the issue sidetracked. We need to do what needs to be done to end the problem(s).
I'm in, too.
It reads like we need to set a date, time and location (preferably with the benefit of moderation) and begin a push to publicize the meeting. It would be great if Dr. Newman was available and willing again. I thought he did really well as moderator previously.
ReplyDeleteThe sooner we do that, the sooner we can start promoting the event. If we want to shoot for August as Greg suggested, we need to act quickly to design and pay for ads, print and distribute fliers, alert the media, and give as many as possible the chance to publish in church bulletins, group newsletters, etc.
We also need to keep in mind that the 2007 budget is currently under consideration. If it's not adjusted to make enforcement a priority prior to approval, we may very well be hearing the "no money" mantra for another year.
I'm in, too.
The White House is fine with me if, assuming we're successful in our promotions, it'll be big enough.
ReplyDeleteThanks for volunteering (again and again).
Any other location thoughts?
I think the White House Center would be our best bet. Can we begin to prepare an agenda? If you need a copywriter for ads, I can do that.
ReplyDeleteWe will need to be well organized and invite LOTS of media reps.
I am leaving for 5 months on August 13th, but if we have it before then I am in. Either way, I can help plan. I can also add this. Newman just returned from Kyrgyzstan. If you want me to, I can see what days he is available.
ReplyDeleteTrue about organization. Annie, do you think your spouse might be able to help with ad and/or flier layout?
ReplyDeleteDoes everyone think flier distribution is a good idea or is there a better way to reach those who don't read the papers or blogs? If we do fliers, we'll need lots of volunteers to walk the neighborhoods distributing and someone(s) to coordinate those volunteers, keping track of which areas have been covered. I can help with walking and/or coordinating.
One concern is where the money is going to come from. Ad space is relatively expensive and copy costs for fliers (assuming a large number) may be substantial. I would think that we'd want to run ads at least twice if possible--once to announce and once to remind-- but others probably have more newspaper advertising experience than I do. Please share.
I'm sure some of us are willing to contribute small amounts individually but we may need a brief coordinated fund drive.
A big well-publicized meeting would hopefully get political attention but I think that it would really be a good idea to consider using the Study Circle approach on this.
ReplyDeleteStudy Circles are a tool that some of us have been introduced to by New Directions.
A Study Circle would do more than get the message to our city officials that we are mad as hell about all this trash (I am not saying that there is anything wrong with doing that).
It could take this to the next level where we could go beyond asking the city to put a procedure in place to deal with hauling away the trash. Just hauling away trash day after day helps clean up New Albany but it may just be treating a symptom rather than making an attempt to address the causes.
Why do we have so much trash? Is it absentee landlords, our throw- away culture, differing social expectations, poverty, ignorance, lack of city services? To me these are questions worth asking and trying to answer.
As I understand the Study Circle approach a variety of people who represent groups or organizations who have some stake in the issue being discussed are invited to discuss the problem and come up with solutions. In regard to our problem with trash the Study Circle might include appropriate representatives from the city and county (health dept.), neighborhood associations, landlords (yes, I realize that the absentee landlords won't want to participate but there are good landlords who could be impacted), tenants, and social service agencies.
This problem goes deeper than just picking up the trash.
Dickie the screaming all-caps man said:
ReplyDelete"ROGER. WHY DO YOU DANCE AROUNT THE PURE FACT THAT GARNER IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS IN THIS CITY."
Because your pure "fact" is pure insanity.
Does the sitting mayor deserve a share of the blame?
Of course, but for you to insist that there was not a problem prior to 2004 is something that's supported by none but the most narrow of viewpoints. It is illogical, nonsensical and just plain wrong.
As we've established, there's plenty of blame to go around. We're waiting -- still waiting -- for the Dick Stewart plan.
Will we see it in our lifetimes?
I'm not holding my breath, but just the same, you are cordially invited to become a part of the solution, rather than continuing to follow loyally at the heels of one side of the problem.
Yes, my husband will be happy to do an ad or flyer layout.
ReplyDeleteI like the study circle idea; I wonder if it would be a good idea for us to get together casually before the actual meeting for some brief planning/strategizing?
If I may beg to disagree on one thing -- and that would be the dumpsters in the yards.
ReplyDeleteSeveral neighborhoods and individuals worked with Council to get a resolution passed getting a dumpster off of a slumlord's property that had been there for over 20 years. Also, slumlord's outsourced garbage dumpsters wake up the entire neighborhood while dumping same; trust me, we know.
Elderly people in nursing home were having problems with the dumping of their dumpsters in the middle of the night.
Thus, various neighbors got an ordinance passed that a dumpster can be there for x amount of days, with a permit, and then removed. No dumpster dumping should be going on between the hours of 7 PM to 6 AM -- but I know they're not enforcing that law either.
Two cents, that's all it is, my two cents worth.
I checked out the study circle website briefly and it sounds like a good template for community action. Let's try it...I'll participate.
ReplyDeleteI actually attended a sample study circle last night at New Directions. It was simple and powerful. I think that it would be a useful process for this area as we need to communicate if we truly want to come together to work toward common goals with a collective vision. I believe that we need to look at the larger issues that cause many of our "problems." I agree with what others have mentioned. Garbage is not the core issue. The problem of garbage will be addressed if we work on the larger issues. We need to look at our "problems" as symptoms of larger issues including poverty and urban sprawl. I know that many people know this. I just feel the need to repeat this again after the discussion at New Directions last night.
ReplyDeleteI've started a continuation of this thread in a Friday morning posting.
ReplyDelete