We fully expect our friend Healthblogger to be all over this one, but until then, here’s the scoop from the AP wire:
Student paper's oral-sex article creates uproar (Associated Press).
COLUMBUS, Ind. -- High school students were trying to protect fellow teens' well-being with a four-page report in the school newspaper on the risks of oral sex, school officials said.
The report in last week's Columbus North Triangle emerged after a student brainstorming session, said Kim Green, adviser to the school's publications. The report, titled "That Other Sex," discussed oral sex and its medical and psychological risks, and included student interviews on how widespread the practice has become.
All in all, routine “tempest in a teapot” content here; students are taught to prepare for adulthood, then take the advice literally, outraging prim and proper bystanders who’ve forgotten their teen years and insist that abstinence is the cure for everything except the war in Iraq.
The part of this story that NA Confidential finds confusing is here:
Kenn Gividen of Columbus, who has run unsuccessfully for the Bartholomew County school board and was the 2004 Libertarian candidate for governor, said the student newspaper is not the proper place for such a frank sexual discussion.
"I'm sure this is something kids are talking about. Kids talked about a lot of dirty things when I was in school," he said. "But it's something completely separate for the school to endorse it, which is obviously what they did by publishing it."
Knowing that NAC has at least two known Libertarian readers, might one or both of them enlighten our blog’s regulars as to the significance of the word “Libertarian” in the wire service story?
Is Kenn Gividen’s Libertarian affiliation a simple matter of editorial courtesy, so as to identify a former gubernatorial candidate in a more precise matter than mere “private citizen,” or is his Libertarian philosophy contextually relevant to his stated viewpoint?
If the latter, what is the Libertarian position on the Columbus North case?
NAC does not know the answer. Deb? Kirk?
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7:00 p.m. update:
Since posting, we remembered adding the blog of Mark W. Rutherford, chairman of the Libertarian Party of Indiana, to NAC's bookmarks, and upon checking, found that Rutherford indeed has taken note of the public relations mileage being gotten out of the Columbus North's Fellatiogate by Gividen:
Former Libertarian Gubernatorial Candidate Kenn Gividen Getting a Lot of Media Attention
Here are brief excerpts:
Being a Libertarian is not the same as being a libertine …
… Some Libertarians are going to find that there was no problem with Columbus North High School publishing the article. Other Libertarians are going to find that publishing the Columbus North High School article was a poor judgment call. But all will agree that the growing trend for government to make decisions in the place of parents is very, very bad policy. They will also agree that free speech is about Kenn questioning the wisdom of Columbus North High School publishing the article. Libertarians wish more people would question government operations such as Columbus North High School.
Ahhh ... public education as government's improper reach. Finally it's starting to make sense.
Kenn Gividen has his own blog: Hillary's Village, and there you can find his views and opinions in detail.
I can't decide if I'm more disturbed by the assertion that oral sex is "dirty" or that, by allowing something to be published, one endorses it.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest a relaxation method for Mr. Gividen but I don't think he'd follow my advice.
I have been following this story and I do agree it appears to have been approached by the students in very mature fashion. My only concern would be on the ages of the kids who could potentially read it. If they were younger than 13 or 14, the paper should be given to parents first and allow the opportunity for them to make the decision on if and how to discuss.
ReplyDeleteI have no problems with the article being in the school paper. It is an enormous problem in our NAFC school systems. Turning a blind eye does not address or fix it.
Abstinence is still the only 100% safe effective means of birth control and prevention of STD's. Abstinence education does work, but it should not be exclusively taught or excluded.
nac quote: "Ahhh ... public education as government's improper reach. Finally it's starting to make sense."
ReplyDeleteI think that's a fair characterization of my views on the topic. It is easily understood in the following way.
If a taxpayer objects to things like this, he/she does not have the right to withhold funds from the school. So they are in essence forced to fund something they find objectionable. If this occurred in a private school, then the parents/funders would have the ability to decide whether they wanted to continue supporting the school.
Also, if the kids had published their own newspaper, they would have control of the finished product. And if the student-readers had to pay for a copy, or the kids had to sell some ads (assuming these kids had some entrepeneurial spirit and did try to make a profit), then it's likely not as many would have even seen it, which meant it might not have been the news item it turned out to be.
So even though the topic is titillating in nature (so to speak), and that's what people grab on to (so to speak ;)) oral sex, specifically, is really not what the discussion should be about.
Thanks for recognizing that I wasn't being sarcastic. It didn't dawn on me until I checked out those other blogs.
ReplyDeleteBrandon quote: "I know different Libertarians fall into different schools of thought on this, but are you suggesting that public education is not a proper role of the government?"
ReplyDeleteDebbie: Yes. Definitely.
Brandon quote: "Do you really think, that in a society as complex as ours (we're not talkin' Amish here), the job of education should be left only to the free market and/or the individual parent?"
Debbie: I think that in a society as complex as ours, we are doing our kids a disservice to give the job of education to the government. You say a lot about your views in general when you say "only" to the free market and individual parent. The free market is precisely the way in which society can use creative and innovative ideas to change as our society changes and grow along with technology. People have such a limited idea of what education is now that the biggest provider is the government. Government is not exactly known for its innovation and quick reponse to change. We can discover so much more out there about education if we only take the time to investigate past what the government shows us.
Brandon quote: "That's a scary thought, to me."
Debbie: Is it scary as to how YOUR particular children would manage, or is it scary because of those OTHER PEOPLE'S children? I can understand how this idea is scary when you first start to ponder it. This particular aspect of freedom is my major hot button though because I've lived it. I totally believe we can educate through the free market. I believe those who are worried about the poor will step up and help them in much more effective ways and those families will be much better off than they are now. Many people have the idea that it's being taken care of because the government's supposedly doing it. Well it's not happening like we'd all like to believe. We have all grown up being told it has to be like this, but it doesn't. We have to remember it is primarily people who make their living off of government funded education that tell us this.
Brandon quote: "We used to not have public education at a time when the world was much less complicated...didn't work out so well to empower people."
Debbie: How much have you actually investigated this? There is a lot of interesting history in compulsory attendance laws that have little to do with education and a lot to do with controlling the "masses."
Brandon quote: "To what extent do you, Deb, believe in the idea of the social contract?"
Debbie: Contract? I don't remember signing no stinkin' contract? :) And what recourse to I have if I feel the contract has been breached? If we truly had some sort of implied contract, then there should be ways to let people out of the deal. But that's a pretty complicated issue that cannot be hashed out on a blog comment board.
Up until now I wasn't sure I would make any comment. Education is Debbie's thing.
ReplyDeleteBut Debbie, where you left off dovetails pretty nicely with my latest, slightly overdue, but appropriately lengthy article.
Of Thee I Singh: What Is Right?
Brandon, I think my article speaks rather directly to where my fondness for my natural rights (life, liberty, etc.) clashes with your fondness for life's necessities (education, food safety, healthcare, etc.).
And Roger, I think you've got adequate insights into Kenn's position. I concur that the entire topic becomes convoluted from a libertarian standpoint when you are looking at a process managed by governement.
Kenn is just saying the same thing he would say if he were on the board of a private school, as would I, and our positions might be different. As Debbie so thorougly explained, we believe raising our children is a matter of personal conscience too.
Damn typos... Pleese axept ma apple orgies. --K
ReplyDeleteKirk, two points about your typo:
ReplyDelete1. Isn't your typo just an ironic example of how government just seems to grow and grow? ;)
3. Isn't this how George W. pronounces it anyway? :0
Just having a little fun before I go off to work.
For Debbie,
ReplyDeleteThe comment:
"If we truly had some sort of implied contract, then there should be ways to let people out of the deal."
makes me think that the school voucher idea to give parents a choice makes a lot of sense. If we have to pay the tax, why can't we use our money how we choose. Home schooling and private schools are the options.
The quotes in the AP story were derived from a story in The Republic (Columbus' daily), a publication that is notorious for misquoting and manipulation.
ReplyDeleteThe "dirty" quote was in response to a question, "Teens are already talking about it, so why not publish it?"
My response: "And teens engage in a lot of dirty talk. They did when I was in high school. If everything teenagers talk about is published, the publication will be wholly pornographic."
Typically, The Republic failed to publish the context of my comments. And typical of most news consumers, the words of the media are believed as gospel truth.
My opinion: Along with liberty comes responsibility. Having a right to publish doesn't make it right to publish.
The North HS faculty had the opportunity to teach the kids the importance of appropriate content. They failed.
Brandon, don't assume that I think moving towards the free market in education would bring perfection. It won't, I know that. But I also know many positive things it would bring.
ReplyDeleteIt would give us the freedom to be flexible, to be innovative and creative so as to better meet individual educational needs. We would have the freedom to put our money into ideas and schools that we think are doing the best work. We would have the freedom to withdraw future funds from and idea or school that proves itself unworthy of our funds. Individuals and organizatios would be free to direct funds straight to help those less fortunate, with no bureaucracy siphoning off funds. And individuals could make those decisions for themselves. All of this freedom and flexibility would make education better for everyone. As a past homeschooling parent, I know how important that flexibility is to success.
Point two: You are indeed correct when you say the government is "the people" at least as to putting it in action. But it's important to also think of government as a "tool" people use, as an entity that uses force to accomplish goals. People need to understand that although people like to say we can control it, (usually those whose livelihoods depend on it) it is very very difficult if not damn near impossible to make government smaller. It only seems to grow and grow. If you read my latest article you can clearly see these two exact points and how I am trying to help people understand it in this manner.