tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post113327146801163839..comments2023-10-17T07:36:16.777-04:00Comments on NA Confidential: Dictionary of Republicanisms, from The Nation.The New Albanianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10757531658514051905noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133549867162109792005-12-02T13:57:00.000-05:002005-12-02T13:57:00.000-05:00Guess we have just about beaten this poor horse to...Guess we have just about beaten this poor horse to death.<BR/><BR/>Subject for next week:<BR/><BR/>Santa Claus--moral/immoral, real/supernatural?Iamhoosierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010741592130752752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133537671162198732005-12-02T10:34:00.000-05:002005-12-02T10:34:00.000-05:00Webster defines supernatural, not me! The things ...Webster defines supernatural, not me! The things we are discussing are outside of the visible observable universe as we currently know it.<BR/><BR/>Again, its ok with me if you choose not to acknowledge this, but as of now, it is a fact that there are those things we cannot explain naturally.<BR/><BR/>1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil<BR/>2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133530239235206082005-12-02T08:30:00.001-05:002005-12-02T08:30:00.001-05:00Brandon you are 100% correct and I could not have ...Brandon you are 100% correct and I could not have articulated it better than your statement.<BR/><BR/>"That's hilarious to me because that statement assumes that they exist. There are countless scientific and philosophical writings that attempt to explain morality outside of the supernatural or the Christian concept of God. They are easy to find if you care to look for them. Whether or not any of them are correct is up for the reader to decide."<BR/><BR/>First sentence states assuming the supernatural exists followed by the countless scientific and philisophical writings attempting to explain it. <BR/><BR/>For thousands of years we have tried to explain what we know exists (morality and supernatural events)and have been unsuccessful in our attempts. These things require a "belief system", a "worldview". It may be a belief in naturalism that someone continues to hold thinking that someday we will be able to explain this in a natural way or it may be a religion, a God, an extraterrestrial etc.<BR/><BR/>But it is a faith in something.<BR/><BR/>Every culture and civilization has attempted to understand and reconcile the question of where we came from, why we are here and why does it matter.<BR/><BR/>The reality is that there are "supernatural" things that cannot be explained naturally that absolutely do exist. <BR/><BR/>The human race continues to try and answer these questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133530201603410382005-12-02T08:30:00.000-05:002005-12-02T08:30:00.000-05:00After chewing on the discussion from yesterday, I ...After chewing on the discussion from yesterday, I have the following thoughts.<BR/><BR/>HB, somehow I have been trying to defend Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness on moral grounds, at least according to you.<BR/>To refresh, my original posting on this was to show the difference between my civic duties and my own personal values or morals. I believe the Constitution is basically a framework for LLH. I believe my personal values come from my life experiences not some supernatural power. <BR/><BR/>My original point was to show there can be a divergence between civic and personal. I feel that many Christians almost equate their belief with being an American. The two are seperate or least should be. Being a Christian does not disqualify a person from being an American but it does not mean that they are either. The converse of that is true also. <BR/><BR/>I have a good friend who has D.Min. in theology and is a pastor.<BR/>When he moved to a new church he used to move the American Flag to the back of the church. People would howl about it. I think his point is pretty obvious. He did not move it out of the church just to a place of less emphasis. He has basically quit doing it for pragmatic reasons.<BR/><BR/>Most of this discussion was started a while back about gay marriage. As an American, I could see little if any bad effect on American society and definitely feel it falls under LLH. My personal moral position should have no bearing on my vote, should it come to that.<BR/><BR/>Briefly on your definitions. I acutally see little in what you wrote that eliminates individual decisions or interpertations. Could one example of these "standards" be the bible? Maybe I am reading you wrong. Would not be the first time that has happened!Iamhoosierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010741592130752752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133474319959402402005-12-01T16:58:00.000-05:002005-12-01T16:58:00.000-05:00I will have to chew on that for awhile. Thanks fo...I will have to chew on that for awhile. Thanks for providing your definitions. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps someday we will be able to meet and have some of these discussions in person. Reminds me of my college days. Much better reasoned answers than the one I got from a co-worker on the marriage admendment in Kentucky. I asked him if he did not believe in LLH and his response was, "You bet but not in this case. We'll show the faggots who is in charge"<BR/><BR/>Maybe tomorrow there will be time.Iamhoosierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010741592130752752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133471728382320032005-12-01T16:15:00.000-05:002005-12-01T16:15:00.000-05:00Morals are that part of our humanness that is conc...Morals are that part of our humanness that is concerned with the judgement of the goodness and badness of human action and character. It is based on a belief system in something that defines what goodness and badness really is. Just saying something is good or bad is not appropriate because that will change with the individual. You have to believe in some standard.<BR/><BR/>Values are usually something we consider in the natural world that can be measured against something else in a tangible way and is usually considered to be desirable. Many values are based on morals.<BR/><BR/>I believe that everyone has a choice in their belief system and the free will to choose. I do not know the answer to whether non-christians can or will get into heaven. My belief in the answer to that question is just that; my belief and I cannot empirically prove or disprove it and do not think others are forced to accept my belief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133469029048466882005-12-01T15:30:00.000-05:002005-12-01T15:30:00.000-05:00I do not belive in the supernatural. Does not mea...I do not belive in the supernatural. Does not mean that I will not attempt to listen and learn. And change my mind. Or flip-flop if some prefer that term. <BR/><BR/>Fair enough?Iamhoosierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010741592130752752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133467338851176252005-12-01T15:02:00.000-05:002005-12-01T15:02:00.000-05:00I am not disagreeing with either or your last repl...I am not disagreeing with either or your last replies, but I am still waiting on the answer from either of you as to the question asked.<BR/><BR/>How do you explain those supernatural values and moral integrity that goes against our natural inclinations and nature.<BR/><BR/>I know how I explain them.<BR/><BR/>I am trying to get you to articulate how you explain the supernatural things in life or do you just choose not to acknowledge them?<BR/><BR/>Either answer is ok, but I would like to hear your precise answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133466857405780952005-12-01T14:54:00.000-05:002005-12-01T14:54:00.000-05:00With my limited eloquence I am tempted to say, "Uh...With my limited eloquence I am tempted to say, "Uh, yeah what Brandon just wrote". I would probably be better off if I did.<BR/><BR/>When did this supernatural power instill these "values"? Using your own example of sex, I sincerely doubt that the cavedwellers held a wedding and then had a reception with a keg of Bud Lite. (just trying to bring a little levity in).<BR/><BR/>I belive "values", "morals", etc have evolved as "man" has attempted to survive. <BR/><BR/>Just thought of something. Perhaps a definition of values, morals would be helpful. Maybe we (all of us) are not talking about the same thing. Is there a difference between VALUES and MORALS to you? Would it be unfair of me to ask for a brief definition?<BR/><BR/>I do sincerely belive that you are a "good" person also. Like you, I am trying to understand where you are coming from.Iamhoosierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010741592130752752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133463989201058932005-12-01T14:06:00.000-05:002005-12-01T14:06:00.000-05:00HB, That is America. Being able to look at the iss...HB, That is America. Being able to look at the issues and make ones choice, not from policy dictated by a bunch of suits that have lost touch -if they ever had any touch- with the real America, not one for the vacationland of the rich and famous, etc. I truly respect the fact that you are a republican and live your life by the rules past and present adopted by the GOP. What I do have a problem with is that it is not the GOP of my youth. Long gone are the views of the GOP in the era of really great republican lawmakers, instead like the ones now that hide behind false hope for their own gain.edward parishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290149866735110512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133462177156068682005-12-01T13:36:00.000-05:002005-12-01T13:36:00.000-05:00I would be satisfied when I hear an answer that ex...I would be satisfied when I hear an answer that explains things that you don't seem to want to admit. <BR/><BR/>Your comment are like many others on these postings. <BR/><BR/>"Right and wrong, good and evil. I believe that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness is good test to determine these. A murderer violates these rights of the murdered. Slavery violates ...<BR/>So yes, I have a basis for defining these values. I believe that is where laws come in. To protect LLH for all. I believe murder is wrong because of LLH not because it is in the 10 commandments."<BR/><BR/>Life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness is not a test that determines good or evil, right and wrong. You cannot define values with naturalistic measures. These values go against naturalism, survival of the fittest, etc. <BR/><BR/>Values are defined by something deep inside individuals that is supernatural and cannot be explained with naturalistic measures.<BR/><BR/>Virtually all societies believe torturing babies is evil. Why?? It is not because they necessarily believe in "life"<BR/><BR/>If it makes you happy, lessons your financial burden, or eliminates a responsibility, then why is it wrong. Sure their are laws, but again, why?? There is a moral right and wrong and it doesn't come from natural laws. It is supernatural.<BR/><BR/>I admire your commitment to your wife and family, but it is against human male nature to be monogamous. <BR/>So what motivates your heart to do this. Many other men feel that having sex with multiple women certainly makes them happy. <BR/><BR/>Again, your moral fortitude is coming from something many people don't want to admit. There is a supernatural realm that we cannot explain with our limitations in naturilistic thinking.<BR/><BR/>I believe that you and many others blogging are very kind, considerate, compassionate and loving individuals, but this is not what are animal instincts tell us to do. <BR/><BR/>So what is it??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133458815150909372005-12-01T12:40:00.000-05:002005-12-01T12:40:00.000-05:00HB,Just exactly what would satisfy you when it com...HB,<BR/><BR/>Just exactly what would satisfy you when it comes to someone defining on what they base their decisions and moral statements? You have basically asked me that question in the past and I answered the best that I could. <BR/>It seemed to me that you basically rejected it.Iamhoosierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010741592130752752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133452236963310792005-12-01T10:50:00.000-05:002005-12-01T10:50:00.000-05:00I read the statement. Their viewpoints, ideology ...I read the statement. Their viewpoints, ideology and postings are all c/w a very liberal (left) stance. <BR/><BR/>I could print that I am not the organ of any party, sect, or body but that would be misleading. I am a consevative and have no problems with my convictions.<BR/><BR/>As for Brandon, I am not saying legislators should legislate on my brand of christianity. I do think they should clarify what they base their decisions and moral statements on.<BR/><BR/>You seem to always complain about where I stand on issues, but I don't think I try to hide or dance around my morals or stances on issues as others do.<BR/><BR/>Being honest and up-front seems to cause some tension for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133445897688723122005-12-01T09:04:00.000-05:002005-12-01T09:04:00.000-05:00Dear HB, please read up on facts before posting ju...Dear HB, please read up on facts before posting judgement..<BR/>About The Nation<BR/>"The Nation will not be the organ of any party, sect, or body. It will, on the contrary, make an earnest effort to bring to the discussion of political and social questions a really critical spirit, and to wage war upon the vices of violence, exaggeration, and misrepresentation by which so much of the political writing of the day is marred." <BR/>-- from The Nation's founding prospectus, 1865edward parishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290149866735110512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133442378442071952005-12-01T08:06:00.000-05:002005-12-01T08:06:00.000-05:00These are cute, inventive and typical coming from ...These are cute, inventive and typical coming from a far left site. <BR/><BR/>Extremist on either side are not healthy, but having moral conviction and declaring it openly is not a bad thing. <BR/><BR/>I still cannot figure out where most Dems base their morals and their decisions except by what the polls tell them or how they feel at any particular moment. <BR/><BR/>Moral relativism is not solid ground to base decisions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133402728556048972005-11-30T21:05:00.000-05:002005-11-30T21:05:00.000-05:00I would have been SO disappointed had Tim not post...I would have been SO disappointed had Tim not posted his white chili definition. I'll bet this really had you chuckling, Tim.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03577783596236766415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133398834127773362005-11-30T20:00:00.000-05:002005-11-30T20:00:00.000-05:00Freedom Foie Gras -Recipe mastered at the tavern f...Freedom Foie Gras -<BR/>Recipe mastered at the tavern formerly known as Ernie's now known(across the street) as The Hitching Post. Same as the old recipe, only with different meat.<BR/><BR/>Trog Shaman - Well, let us just say it is already a term on the list of "Dictionary of Republicanisms".....You figure it out.edward parishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290149866735110512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133385279688491312005-11-30T16:14:00.000-05:002005-11-30T16:14:00.000-05:00white chili, nWhen in the cauldron, a favorite New...<B>white chili, n</B><BR/>When in the cauldron, a favorite New Albanian Halloween costume.The New Albanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757531658514051905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097125.post-1133383474618036842005-11-30T15:44:00.000-05:002005-11-30T15:44:00.000-05:00Well, I think we all know who'll take on the white...Well, I think we all know who'll take on the white chili definition.<BR/><BR/>Just when I thought that gag had gotten as much mileage as possible . . .Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03577783596236766415noreply@blogger.com