It's worth noting that local developer "The Gary" has repeatedly stated that although it would constitute the type of hardship that comes along only once in a schlockmeister's lifetime, he'd be willing to raze the classic Silvercrest architecture and build Lauren's Corner II according to the familiar exurban model if the county doesn't want to take the state up on its offer and deal with it.
Do we need any other reason to hold on tight?
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The New Albany Historic Preservation Commission has been monitoring the discussions of the Silvercrest Hospital Historic Site during the last few months. Recent articles mentioned the possible razing of structures on the site.
The Commission has drafted the following letter to our Floyd County Board of Commissioners urging the exploration of all alternatives prior to razing structures on this historic site in New Albany:
Full Text of NAHPC Letter to County Commissioners (.pdf)
28 comments:
Gary McCartin's involvement as an advisor to the county in this matter is troubling to say the least. To my knowledge, he has little to no experience in the adaptive reuse of historic structures. In fact, he's been openly hostile to the idea downtown.
There are developers all over the country, including many in Louisville, turning large, historic buildings into condos and mixed-use facilities. Why not seek their opinion or, as the letter suggests, put out a request for proposal?
As stated in a previous post on this facility, would it not be smart for the city and county to purchase this structure/grounds and move its offices there?
I've been out of the loop on this--at what point and where was it stated that McCartin is advising on this?
I got an email with an answer to my above question.
From media quotes, it appears that Mr. Heavrin isn't in favor of an historic designation for Silvercrest. Is he still on the Council? Doesn't his term expire this year? How do other county council members feel about the building?
At this point, permit me to aknowledge a bit of confusion on the part of the NAHPC.
The letter was addressed both to the commissioners, and to Mr. Heavrin as the board's president.
Of course, Mr. Heavrin is president of the county council, not the board of commissioners.
I'm not speaking for him, but my guess is that Ted Fulmore merely transposed the two, given that Mr. Heavrin's, shall we say, somewhat "provocative" public statements in favor of bulldozer fetishism were responsible for the need to address the issue.
In truth, both the county commissioners and the county council need to be aware of the position stated by the NAHPC.
Wasn't Bill Cochran involved in this at the formative stages? Any word on his view of the manner by which county officials seem to be dismissing the offer of a stupendously valuable gift?
With all due respect, I don't think it is too much to ask to address Mr. McCartin with a little more respect than "The Gary." Also, has anyone actually spoken to Mr. McCartin in regards to Silvercrest? I think not.
Whether you agree or not with his projects, Mr. McCartin is extremely intelligent and informed in regards to real estate and development.
Please do not assume things about the man. If you have questions, just ask.
I won't argue that he is extremely well informed with respect to what he does best.
However, echoing Bluegill's thoughts above, I'm prepared to argue that what he does best is highly ill-suited (putting it more charitably than is my habit) for (a) historic buildings, (b) historic downtowns in general, and (c) matters pertaining to what most of us would generically refer to as the New Urbanist ethos.
See:
The Gary: An excess of pure, unadulterated ego? Perhaps tolerable in the exurban sprawl, but not relevant to downtown New Albany.
Yep, I can't swing a dead rat downtown without hitting a church building, many of them historic, and yet The Gary once stated that people wouldn't live downtown because, and I quote a Tribune article with which you may be familiar, “he thinks people would rather have a yard and live near their church and other conveniences.”
Some would. Others wouldn't. The Gary obviously understands the former, and just as obviously not the latter.
Now, with publicly stated attitudes like this, where does the “intelligent” attribution take over from my descriptive preference, which is “self-serving”?
My point is that Mr. McCartin knows what works and what does not. Sure, his primary concerns probably aren't the same as yours in regards to historic buildings, but neither are mine. I think historic buildings are fine, but you have to come to a point and decide what is more important. In order to have nice historic buildings, you have to have people taking care of them. Otherwise they just look like rundown buildings that nobody cares about. And what is the point of having nice historic buildings all over the downtown that do nothing for the downtown?
By the way, there's nothing wrong with wanting to do business and make a profit. Like my dad says, nothing is free.
Ali, we're not connecting here.
The whole principle of New Urbanism is that there are people who'll come and take care of the historic buildings because they value a certain way of lifestyle.
The Gary has never indicated that he has any grasp of what that lifestyle implies, and so it is unlikely that his considerable expertise has much, if any, application to those seeking a lifestyle he all but admits to not grasping.
How, then, is his admitted exurban expertise of any use to those of us seeking to revitalize a historic downtown according to principles that he either eschews, or is openly hostile to?
Have you been to Madison? I'm sure you have. Obviously, there must be profit in downtown revitalization and reuse of historic properties. Imagine The Gary's fond desire to level square blocks of "old" buildings and bring big box shopping downtown, and how that would have destroyed downtown Madison.
Same here.
I readily concede that your boss knows all there is to know about developing raw land in the exurb, and I'm sparing you when it comes to debating the ultimate societal inefficiency of that model (although it certainly does maximize short term profits), but he knows next to nothing about what is needed downtown, and the majority of times that he's ventured a public opinion about it, the resulting statements reveal far less about his knowing what does or doesn't work as they do about his having an opinion about which demographic he prefers working with.
And I strongly disagree with him as to the merits of that opinion.
Is downtown New Albany going to be transformed into Madison any time soon?
I've been in New Albany my entire life, and I'm still waiting. Driving over the Sherman Minton bridge recently, I couldn't help but get a little depressed as I scanned the downtown area.
So I beg, if someone is going to transform our historic buildings then get to it . . . while I'm still alive to enjoy it. By the way, I love looking at the houses and reading about their history on the Historic New Albany Web site.
I was being facetious, Annie. In the majority of newspaper stories about the future of Silvercrest, we hear from elected officials, Gary McCartin, and no one else.
My request here is simple: Get advice or proposals from people who've successfully handled properties similar to Silvercrest in the past. Gary McCartin isn't that person. Neither am I. Until the county does that, though, any decision they make will be uninformed.
I'm not sure how Bill Cochran has reacted to the county's reported rejection of Silvercrest. Early on he said he'd hate to see the property converted into condos. I don't understand why.
Unless the state has put restrictions on its offer to transfer the property, it would seem reasonable for a cash strapped county to consider selling the property to a private developer willing to adhere to preservation principles. Isn't that what the state will do, possibly with no guarantee of historic protection, if we say no? If this whole endeavor was about saving money, isn't making it just as good?
I think the point here is, if the buildings are torn down to build "discount" stores there is no way to build a "Madison".
Roger wants a Madison. So do I. Roger does not see the developer in question as understanding the urban mentality. Neither do I.
That said, many, many more people have chosen to go and live the developer's way. Roger doesn't like that and I think he blames the developers a little too much for that.
I'm sorry Ali and "The Gary" but in 2007 it's JUST PLAIN STUPID to question the value of saving and restoring a choice historic downtown like New Albany's. Check out Paducah's Lowertown Program for a model that's received national attention close by, in addition to the aforementioned success of Madison. Strip Malls should be illegal. Developers like "The Gary" are literally, have literally destroyed whole swaths of America...please hands off what is left of authentic city life here.
Anyone interested may want to ask County Commissioner Steve Bush for a glance at a study paid for by Mr. McCartin about that property, including the cost of cleanup and whatnot.
Is it me or does there seem to be a new trend (at least to this blog)? I get a negative vibe from some people about rebuilding new albany. I myself would love to see new albany turn into a booming town overnight. It is not going ot happen. Demolishing some of the buildings down town would definatly improve the appearance downtown but it would KILL the feeling.
I moved to New Albany a little over a year ago. I now know I paid to much for my house. The house across the street is full of vagrants that fell the need to do doughnuts in the gravel parknig lot. There is a huge empty factory across the street that "might" be turned into assisted living. My neighbor rents motorcycles out of his garage. Trucks pull in and out of the road across the street all night long. Just this past weekend I had the cops wake me up at 1 am to let me know a suspect they were chasing knocked down a section of my picket fence. I had a drunk man almost bust through my door instead he passed out on my porch swing and had a BAL of .38. I do not know anyone in New Albany except my wifes ex-husband, his fiance and I have talked to Bluegill in person a couple of times and I do not have a clue where to make new aquantances. So if anyone deserves to have a negative attitude I win the prize. But yet I see what these guys are pushing for I see the potential that New Albany has. I see the positive attitude that people have here. It keeps me hanging on.
I guess my whole point is. The guys here are pushing for a positive change in the city. They might attack city officals but from the poor state of the city someone needs to. They might be blunt in what they say but hey its obviously having some impact. More and more people are reading the blog. Its drawing attention. Everytime I get discouraged I come here and read about people that care about the community and it gives me a new hope.
As far as the hospital being turned into something else. What harm would it be to explore other options before dusting off the wrecking ball? With the building of Museum Plaza desirable living in downtown Louisiville is expanding slowly towards Louisville. If planning is done correctly New Albany could become one of the most desirable places to live. It would draw people that never thought about moving here. After all where can you but a 2000+ sq. ft. Victorian under 200k this close to louisville?
There are city officials aplenty who will read your comments and commiserate. Some among them have worked and continue to work to make matters better.
But -- and this is important -- none seem to be able, or willing, to piece together the entire package and advocate changes that are coherent and inter-related. I don't believe that the inaction of any is indicative of malice or ill will. That doesn't mean that their consistent failure to examine the picture from top to bottom is any more pleasant.
I walk past your house each day. The house across the street is a disgrace; nothing is done. There might yet be movement on the M Fine building; the last hopeful couldn't get financing. Every time I read about the Mellwood Arts complex, I see the Fine building, and yet there remain upstanding citizens prepared to scoff at anything approximating vision - not because the premises are invalid, but because they know they're incapable of seeing it, and can't understand why functional citizens ever would.
All downtowners deal on a daily basis with the detritus from four decades of reliance on slumlords to revitalize downtown. Nope, hasn't worked, has it?
I'm rambling. Sloburn, know that we're damned glad you're here.
We've been having decent luck in the neighborhood association with the idea of having informal social meetings at local eateries.
In 2007, perhaps we can widen this idea to include any and all, perhaps once a month or bimonthly. No particular plan, no special agenda ... just a meet, greet and gab. With beer, I hope.
"That said, many, many more people have chosen to go and live the developer's way. Roger doesn't like that and I think he blames the developers a little too much for that."
Mark's probably right with respect to my personal system of beliefs, although at root, I just want a fair shake for those of us not willing to be condemned to perpetual exurban blandness.
Oops. Slipped out again, didn't it?
To echo the New Albanian, Sloburn is exactly the type of person that we need in New Albany, not because he agrees with NAC, but because he sees the potential and is willing to invest in it.
I'll be sure to let you know when the neighborhood association gatherings that the New Albanian mentioned are scheduled. I should've done a better job of that already.
Sloburn...I moved here less than a year ago after 25 in Massachusetts. I joined the Main St Preservation Org and we meet at the Culbertson Mansion once a month and it's fun and a great way to meet neighbors. Join us.
sloburn-we've got two babies too. We're pretty lame but you can always come "hang out" with us :-)
Here are the 3 main problems with the Silvercrest site when it comes to some type of residential style renovation. (My opinion of course!)
1.) The building is beautiful BUT it sits on the property wrong. When you drive up the access road, you see the parking lot, maintenance shed and the back of the building which is not attractive at all.
2.) There were early figures of $1,000,000.00 for renovation of the facility. The entire facility needs a total mechanical (HVAC, electrical and plumbing) renovation. (My company has worked on the HVAC system for years.) The boiler in that building could be on the National Historic Register! The mechanical renovation alone would take up at least $1,000,000.00.
3.) The building is basically a bomb shelter with poured concrete walls and floors through-out. I toured the facility with a developer recently and we talked about the idea of converting the building to up-scale "art-deco" apartments and flats. The problem with that is to make the rooms into living spaces, one would have to combine at least 4 - 5 rooms. A stick of dynamite would be needed to locate a doorway between each room.
Sincerely,
Steve LaDuke
3:23 PM
While I was painting my foyer I was reflecting on this discussion and others that have taken place on NAC. And a couple of questions came to mind again.
"what type of New Albany do you want?"
I myself would love to see a artisan type comunity with coffee shops, music shops, book stores, and are galleries. Maybe even a glassworks. It seems to me the city goverment wants offices and large businesses which is find because the amount of mony they have the potential to bring in would be a nice boost to the city. But I am sure the city would just squander it away.
Also what course of action could be done?
This revamping is going to take years. So what course of action could the residents that want to see change take?
Last but not least. Those that support the demolition of Silvercrest. Demilition might be the only course of action for the building. BUT you have to understand the people that would rather see something positive done with the building side of the story (or at least mine). In the short time I have lived here I have noticed that the fist instinct when a building issue like this comes up, the interested parties want to demolish the building and start from scratch. So the people that love the buildings of New Albany get on the defensive and want to make sure all routes are explored before we end up with another parking log.
Now that I have alot of free time due to a permanant layoff from work. I will definatly try to make it to some of the neighborhood associations meetings in the area. I might even try to make it out to drinknig liberaly.
Steve,
I fully understand your concerns on all counts but would like to suggest some solutions to them.
First of all, access roads can be moved and landscaping can hide a multitude of less than pleasing views.
Second, and to me, the most obvious one that is constantly overlooked, there is grant monies everywhere to be had for projects such as this.
And last but not least, anyone who saw what the Fischer's Plant on Melrose was a few short years ago and looks at it now will have to testify that NEARLY any building can be restored into a functional and appealing structure.
Vision and the willingness to see it happen are 90% of the struggle. The other 10% has a way of working itself out.
That isn't to say the bulldozer doesn't have a place but only as a last resort.
And that's my opinion!
Our opinion is this facility would make a great "youth detention center"; something the City and County need desperately; something the County is already planning on spending monies building -- why not use this one and spend those monies on those repairs?
Our opinion.
Well, it is my opinion, that Silvercrest would be a "Money Pit" for the county.
I think it would cost more to renovate and then OPERATE Silvercrest then it would to build a new efficient building. The county already has the land next to the existing old and out-dated youth center on Grantline Rd. The new building could be built while the old facility would continue to operate during the construction process. Once the new facility is ready, the offices could be moved next door and then, the debate to renovate or tear down the old structure on Grantline Rd. could begin.
I'm going to leave this persons name out of the conversation but... someone who has been VERY vocal on the need for a new Youth Detention Center has said they believe the Silvercrest facility would be a financial fiasco for the county.
Again, my opinion...
P.S.
Highwayman,
I agree with you on most points but it would take alot more than relocating a road and landscaping to cover up the views when approaching the rear of that facility.
Also, I never said I thought a bulldozer was the best for Silvercrest.
Sincerely,
Steve LaDuke
Steve,
Point acknowledged!
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